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User	kanu | 2006-06-15 |
Subject	untitled
Message	what to speak of outside america, even america is an abode of misery - if you are spending time in a dark cell with 7 other mysterious charcaters - to be suddenly moved to your very own cell with a view of the prison yard appears like the lap of luxury but it is still a miserly existence - it just takes a natural disaster or even just the regular daily anxiety of living in this world to remind a person of intelligence that this world is not the suitable abode for a gentleman

User	Blue Monk | 2006-06-15 |
Subject	untitled
Message	In my own experience I am blessed to have lived and to live here and now in the USA. I can’t say how "happy" people elsewhere may be, it’s beyond my experience. I do seem to see a lot of misery in some corners, and too often it’s not generally located where Christian charity is even welcome.

User	Lost Sheep | 2006-06-07 |
Subject	untitled
Message	"Now if you are satisfied with the material world - fine - stay here. " You know I’d aleady planned to do that LOL.

User	kanu | 2006-06-07 |
Subject	untitled
Message	I never said there was no happiness in the material world - i said that it is a low grade of happiness because it is mixed with misery - kind of like sweet rice mixed with sand. Now if you are satisfied with the material world - fine - stay here.

User	Lost Sheep | 2006-06-07 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Kanu: "Well what’s the alternative - if the material world is our actual real constitutional position why is there discomfort around every corner? Why do we develop attachment to temorary things and suffer when they go? Why do we have to die when it goes against everything we aspire for?" Blue Monk is right Kanu, you’re the only one here seeing discomfort and distress everywhere. Sure when a loved one dies, there’s pain. I’ve written dozens of poems about dealing with my mom’s death. Still, the positives of knowing her far outreach the feelings of loss. In general, the world is a happy place. Unfortunately, it’s not ALL happy. As to the concept of "it’s not just me", you’re right it’s not just you. It’s a good half of humanity, all proclaiming different things as the truth. If everyone believed the same thing, your argument would have some weight, but a solid look at the real world shows that each group believes something different. Religious leaders spend time trying to convince others that they’re right and the others are mistaken. All of the differing beliefs add power to my argument that no one actually knows. Steve

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Well if the material world is our constitutional position and is a place of bliss why are you happy to be in the USA where you have freedom and not China? Civilisations come and go - 1000 years from now china could become the US and the US could become china in terms of social climate - then you may not be so blissful walking down the street. For someone who is supposed to be detached you seem quite attached to America

User	Blue Monk | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	" if the material world is our actual real constitutional position why is there discomfort around every corner? Why do we develop attachment to temorary things and suffer when they go?" This is not a universal statement because I for one do not see discomfort around every corner, but rather enjoy the opposite. There is also a difference between an "attachment" to temporary things and an appreciation of them while they’re present. It is a simple matter to accept a place, time and situation for what it is, a temporary station whether comfortable or not. Perhaps as one gets older, having had more exposure to those things, our shell becomes thicker and we worry less. Of course this is easy for me to say, having been blessed all my life as a U.S. citizen and as a Christian (since age 12). That is not to say there have been no bumps in the road. As a friend says when I ask how he is doing today, "Blessed and highly favored!" regardless. It’s truly a shame that some countries and/or religions outlaw and persecute Christianity, even while supposedly recognizing Christians (and Jews) as "people of the Book". The sons of Abraham war against each other even while "honoring" the same God (of Abraham). I suggest that some preachers, mullahs and rabbis have lost their way. To date, the U.S. still welcomes and allows all people to worship in their own manner as long as no laws are being broken. I am unaware of any mosques being burned here, although some Christian churches have been by some misguided people. As you might be aware, some Christians worship quite differently from others aside from the commonality of worshipping Jesus as the Son of God and Savior. If they ever all get together, then worry. That would be the predicted anti-christ at work and the end will have begun.

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Mae - if the body,mind and soul are all equally us - why don’t people counttheir blessings at funerals and say - well at least we still have the body, 33% of himis still around - it could be worse .... the answer is of course is that the body is useless when it is seperated from the soul - in fact it starts to decompose - the body without the soul literally stinks because the body has no independence outside the soul - similarly despite all the diversity of god’s energies, even withinthe catergory of godhead, the energies have no jurisdictionbeyond the personality of god, whom all the energies are emanating from

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Well what’s the alternative - if the material world is our actual real constitutional position why is there discomfort around every corner? Why do we develop attachment to temorary things and suffer when they go? Why do we have to die when it goes against everything we aspire for? You’ve got to rememberthat its not just me who is trying to advocate that there is a higher realm of existence or that this manifested world that we see is not the all on all - there have been many staunch philosophers from all partsof the world that indicatethe same thing - if it was maybe just one isolated case you could probably write it off as a geographical or cultural anomoly but when all cultures in all part sof the world have developed some idea of a spiritual truth, whether they are jungle tribes in the amazon or egyptians, you have to ask yourself why do you not believe it? Is it some global conspiracy that has been co-ordinated since time immemorial by nefarious men to propagate an idea that there is an absolute truth? What is your reason for doubting it? What exactly are you perceiving steve that makes you able to jump over the shoulders of literally thousands of philosophers, artists and religious practioners from Pythagorus to Einstein?

User	Lost Sheep | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	" Steve we were created with independence - just like your kids are - so we have misused that independence and have wound up in a world that (due to ignorance) appears seperate from god - in other words we have taken so many wrong turns away from home that we have forgot the very concept of home to begin with - so to revitalise that primary piece of info - god’s kingdom is our home, we have religious principles that bring abou tthat change of heart - therefore the first step is to develop the understandingthat god is great and relinquish one’s false ego." Kanu, once again, you’re throwing out unsupportable statements without realizing it, so the question needs to be asked: How do you know? Please don’t tell me that some other human told you so, or quote something written by another human that’s been dead for 2500 years. What scrap of material evidence do you have for this kind of statement? Steve

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	well even the body mind and soul are dependant on the soul - there is scriptural conversation betwen a sage and a king on a topic much like this - the king wanted to know about the soul so the sage brought in a coconut plucked from a tree and asked the king what it was. He said it was a coconut. Then he took the outer husk off and asked the king what it was - he said a coconut. Then he cracked open the shell and scooped out the white pulp and asked the king what it was - it was of course coconut - so even though all three things were coconut for a coconut to be an actual coconut it must have the white stuff inside - otherwise it is a coconut in anme only - in the same way even though we have a body , mind and soul, the body and mind are only coverings of the soul and are useless in the absence of the soul. In the same way that there is no possibility of seeing the sunshine or reflections of the sun in water if there is no sun. In the same way as there is no possibility of there being any energy of God without the personality of god. So even though there is a trinity, there is a distinction between what is the enrgy and what is the source of that energy - again it is only a seperation of definition, since it is technically impossible to seperate god from his energies just like it is impossible to seperate the sunshine from the sun

User	mae | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	God has no personality? Now, kanu, did I say that? I’m trying to explain to you why they are the same, yet different, and you’re putting words in my mouth! You’ve written a paragraph rebutting something I didn’t say! Slow down, willya? At least let me say something to argue with! It’s hard to explain so that someone who wasn’t raised in it can understand what you’re trying to say - oh, phooey, it’s hard to explain to people who WERE raised in it! I have a body, a soul, a mind. Which one is the real me? The answer, of course, is they all are, but they are different aspects of me. Does my body have a personality. Well, yes, insofar as detached bodies can (for the sake of this discussion, the mind must be detached from the body. I’ll put me back together later.) Does my soul have a personality? Absolutely. Does my mind? Of course. Have they all three always existed together? Yes. When one manifests itself, are the others there; do we always see the others? Yes, they are all there; do we see them? Not always. That, of course, is a much simplified example of the Trinity. I don’t know if it’s a good enough explanation, but there it is. mae

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Godhead, or as it originally was, godhood, belongs to the word family of other words like neighbourhood, brotherhood etc - it is a way to acknowledge the unity of a diverse collection. So to say godhead means that you are refering to diverse objects that are somehow unified. . Like for instance if you talk about god being unmanifest, that is not refering to the supreme godhead because an unmanifest object is inferior to a manifest object. I agree that god does have an unmanifest energy, the energy that sustains, creates and destroys this universe, but I do not agree that the unmanifest energy is the supreme.

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	So god is ultimately non-manifest ? God has no personality? Then that raises the question how did we develop personality if god doesn’t have a personality. If god is fully complete how is it that we have something that he doesn’t. How also could god speak or even will anything unless he had a manifest personality? Is god restricted somehow that he cannot manifest himself in this world? What sort of god is that? .

User	mae | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Jesus is the physical manifestation of the Godhead. mae

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Or if you disagree Mae, why would god have to go under two names in the bible, ie jesus and god, unless there is a similar connection like I have explained with the sunshine and the sun?

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Steve we were created with independence - just like your kids are - so we have misused that independence and have wound up in a world that (due to ignorance) appears seperate from god - in other words we have taken so many wrong turns away from home that we have forgot the very concept of home to begin with - so to revitalise that primary piece of info - god’s kingdom is our home, we have religious principles that bring abou tthat change of heart - therefore the first step is to develop the understandingthat god is great and relinquish one’s false ego. Try reading those things I posted before Mae about the sun and the sunshine - the very word godhead came about (originally godhood - a collection of things in relation to god) because it was acknowledged that there is a variety of things that come under the banner of god - namely god and his energies - just like there is the sun disc in the sky (you can point to) and there is the energy that manifests from it (the sunshine). Is it possible to seperate the sun from the sunshine? No because they are one, yet for the purposes of understanding the difference between the energy (the sunshine) and the energetic (the sun) we call them different words - similarly it is technically impossible to seperate jesus from god (like seperatingthe sunshine from the sun), yet for the purposes of understanding how things interact in this world there is a distinction between jesus and god - It is not a mystery - it somethingthat we see all thhe time - how things are simultaneously one and different

User	mae | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	kanu, you often allude to the fact that spiritual things, as they honestly exist, are beyond the understanding of mere human beings, (or at least I think you do. Sometimes I get a little bit lost in your answers 8>) ) . This is one of those things. The different aspects of the trinity are called "Father", "Son" and "Holy Spirit" simply to aid humans in a limited understanding of the Trinity. They have all always existed together; they’re simply different aspects of the same God, commonly referred to as the Godhead. We could have as easily called them Ted, George and Lucy. The names are only for our benefit. Steve - this isn’t all that late for me - although I do have to do stuff in the morning, (this morning?) so should start thinking about bed. Sleep well! mae

User	Lost Sheep | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	"Well then the question is Mae how do you explain that Jesus is the father. Why does jesus constantly allude to a father. " I’ll let you guys battle this one out. I can hear my bed calling me. LOL I think I agree with you on this one anyway, Kanu. Quick answers between yawns: "do you think that your kids have faith in you?" They have proof of me, so they don’t really need religious faith "Do you think that they respect you" Most of the time LOL "just like inthe spiritual world everyone has a normal relationship with god, which may not be steeped so much in awe and reverence" So far, so good "but what we have is material life where people are adverse to god - an unnatural relationship - so a different means is required which is the basic understanding that god is great and I am small as the starting point" Wrong wrong wrong. God created us this way. How is our relationship unnatural?? Our relationship is exactly like he wants it. There’s no reason for mandated worship other than an egocentric diety, of which I see no evidence. Night folks, I’ll be back in the morning. Sleep well. Steve

User	kanu | 2006-06-06 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Well then the question is Mae how do you explain that Jesus is the father. Why does jesus constantly allude to a father. Why does he never say anything direct like "I am the source of all worlds. Everything emanates from me. The wise who understand this worship me with all their hearts"? And steve - do you think that your kids have faith in you? Do you think that they respect you - if they do it is a normal relationship - just like inthe spiritual world everyone has a normal relationship with god, which may not be steeped so much in awe and reverence - but what we have is material life where people are adverse to god - an unnatural relationship - so a different means is required which is the basic understanding that god is great and I am small as the starting point