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User	kanu | 2006-06-15 |
Subject	untitled
Message	well I don’t know if scripture is required to be original to be bonafide - I think it is more a case of the same old story - ignorance in the material world doesn’t have a range of causes

User	ghostknight | 2006-06-14 |
Subject	untitled
Message	if christianity is right, it definitely shows that god has no creativity. do a little research and tell me how much of the bible’s story is original. sad, but true.

User	kanu | 2006-06-14 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Well in the words of one christian priest "The only problem with christianity is that it hasn’t been properly tried yet" - if the christians are right they had better get their act together and start manifesting the symptoms of purity rather than dragging everyone over the coals - history is full of personalities who thought they were on the liberated platform but then some time down the track discoverthat they are not

User	Inc. | 2006-06-14 |
Subject	untitled
Message	I’m not going to argue here, just want to ask this: What if Christians are right? And don’t turn the question back, it will just show that you are going to Hell, if you die in Sin, which you are in now. Sad, but true.

User	kanu | 2006-06-14 |
Subject	untitled
Message	well an eternal value would be sense enjoyment - everybody wants to be happy. Now to be happy requires some sort of social management or production of the necessities of life (otherwise there is no question of happiness) - so a second eternal value would be economic development or something along those lines. Now there is no question of economic development unless people are situated on some sort of moral platform - like for instance it is very difficult to perform agriculture is everyone is raping and pillaging, so a third eternal principle would be religious principles - of course all these eternal principles pertain to human civilisation. So lo and behold if you examine scripture you find directions for the performance of moral behaviour, economic development , and the pursuit of happiness. With or without scripture these three things will go on, but in the absence of scriptural direction (which is god’s direction) they go on badly.

User	ghostknight | 2006-06-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	i’m honestly blown away by this last post. it makes so little sense that i won’t bother to argue it. "concerning whether eternal values are established in a society depends on how much they actually fall in line with god, rather than rubber stamping a denomination as god’s side or whatever. " you keep ignoring the real point, that there is no proof of these ’eternal values’ and such that you keep defending. you sound like you’re trying to be a messenger between god and us ignorant children below you. i respect personal beliefs until they try to affect someone else’s... are you sure your beliefs aren’t trying to spread?

User	kanu | 2006-06-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	society is not the cause of all causes - it is the second tier down from established values (whether they may owe the establishment of values to religion or not) - the very fact that god can present ideas and people can socialize around them doesn’t make the whole notion of god an imagination simply because his teachings are reflected in society - concerning whether eternal values are established in a society depends on how much they actually fall in line with god, rather than rubber stamping a denomination as god’s side or whatever. In the absence of having social values established by god we can see that very nefarious forces take power - like the word communism is practically synonomous wth corruption and social incompetence due to figures in th ehistory of china and russia. If it appears that the notion od god is causing a problem in the social fabric it is because people don’t havethe correct knowledge of god and are namingthe useless things in their hearts "god" instead

User	ghostknight | 2006-06-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	humans have only themselves to provide ’proof’ that we are obligated to do anything other than what we feel. morals and the like are all defined by the same entity that enforces them- society. at no point is god involved unless we say he is, and this seems to be causing more problems than it’s fixing.

User	kanu | 2006-06-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	The point is that we will always exist under the jurisdiction of superior elements that limit us (at least in th ematerial world anyway). As for bringing god to the mundane level by putting him on par with humanity , it works the other way - its not that men make god mundane in their image, god makes humanity divine in his. That’s the distinctionbetween humanity and animals - animals you don’t have to worry about following any higher rules of existence because to be given an anmial body is to be forced into a limited sphere of existence - I mean just as you don’t see animals going to church or whatever, you don’t see them creating bombs or engage in mass genocide (sure they get a bit grumpy in th e mating season - but that’s everywhere)

User	ghostknight | 2006-06-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	that’s pride that gets in the way. have you noticed there’s no other species on earth making any claims about a higher reason to life? nature is absolutely neutral regarding whatever any religion says; animals will kill, copulate and evolve until the earth dies out. human beings think that just because we have a slightly higher ability to reason, suddenly we’re more important- and then the whole ’god’ thing comes into play. every god in history has been fashioned after man and the times he lived in. if a vending machine fell from an airplane onto a deserted island and every morning dispensed something to eat, and all the monkeys began to eat the food from the machine instead of bananas from the trees, how long until they come to expect food from the machine, begin to make it an official part of their lifestyles? and how long until the machine runs out? point is, the monkeys have changed their ’civilization’, they’ve put their faith in something that cannot last forever, but they lack the intelligence or scope of time to understand this. so you could make this an even more interesting thought by considering what would happen if another vending machine were to fall on the island once the first ran out, but this one had a completely different selection of foods it spat out. how quickly do you think those monkeys would take to the new machine and proceed to base their civilization around it, and become expetant once again for the particular artificial flavors provided? nature isn’t good enough anymore, the monkeys have begun to expect more from their existence. and every vending machine that falls from the sky is going to run out. but as long as there’s another one coming, it will be considered just as good as the one before it, even if the food inside it changes completely every time.

User	Acid | 2006-06-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Deep... but whats it about exactly? I mean, I see what you mean, and yes I know and recognize the fact that humans aren’t the superior beings on the planet, but I also know that at the moment humans think that they’re the dominant species, but imagine if you will, we’re just here for the virus’es to occupy, or some other such thing. It can raise a question or two, can’t it?

User	kanu | 2006-06-12 |
Subject	untitled
Message	To an ant a large building is practically infinity, for a horse perhaps a large country - and for us - we also have a material scope for infinity - I wouldn’t worry about as reaching the end of all conclusions of this universe because we occupy a far from superior position in it

User	Acid | 2006-06-12 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Well it shouldn’t matter wether or not your an athiest or whatever, just so long as you’re a goodly person, and don’t do what religion would call a sin, then you should be able to live a healthy, normal life. And thank you for the reply to my ranting input but I still can’t believe in a creator of any sort, I see evolution as an imperfect process, the exact explanation I couln’t even begin to conceive. But on the evolution theory all I can say is that in two billion years many things, the likes of which I hardly doubt any one person could comprehend. For every awnser there’s two more questions, the real question though, is when,(because it’s only a matter of time) there are no more questions left, only through determination, and collecting information will we gather a large amount of information that can help discern a truth. To this though, I have to be fair, every person should be able to choose their lifestyle, (which includes religion, ect.) So let me be free to decide, as I will let you. Acid

User	Lost Sheep | 2006-06-08 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Acid, while I’m not an athiest, I can certainly agree with most of what you’ve said here. I do believe in a creator, simply because I see too many different species on the planet for evolution to have supplied during the available time. Also, I see a lot of really complicated biological systems that couldn’t have evolved in one step, yet were useless half-finished. That being said, I don’t believe that that creator is taking an active, day to day interest in our lives or afterlives. I agree with you that we have oodles of conflicting ideas and no proof of any of them. Steve

User	kanu | 2006-06-08 |
Subject	untitled
Message	well I guess what goes down in religion is an attempt to personalise absolute forces - like for instance we don’t doubt our own authority or right to freedom but we see that everyone’s freedom in this existence is curbed - in other words we have a desire to act without restriction but we encounter obstacles at every step of the way. All this indicates a superior management of the environment we live in. And what we have in the name of religion is the means to understand the superior nature of management in this world. So you can argue about who has done a good job or bad job of that but it doesn’t take away the fundamental realities of life that are beyond denomination - material wealth doesn’t follow material education (there are plenty of educated people who are practically penniless) and happiness doesn’t follow material wealth (plenty of rich and famous people are miserable) so an agenda of pure material education tends to be a bit lopsided

User	Acid | 2006-06-08 |
Subject	untitled
Message	My impresion on the matter is that (and don’t hate me for being an atheist) there is no god... just plain and simple, I’ve never felt a convelecent care pouring through me with the pure hearted radiation of a guy who died two thousand years ago’s love. I’m sorry but to put it logically can anyone tell me, with absolute proof, that there is in fact an almighty deity. To me it’s like believing in santa claus, none of it adds up. And from a scientific point of veiw it holds no ground, yes there are things on earth (and other planets) that are wonderful and mysteious, but to believe that a... thing put them all there, please define me the word ludicrous. I think that it’s just the manifest of a human’s point of veiw that created a ’god’ to put all of their emotional baggage on. And I’m harping mostly on Christians here, because they had the "great" idea to spread their "faith" across the land, shunning those who believed in thier own path and converting their offspring. I’m sorry for the rant and all but whos to say that there is no "god", me... and not just me, but many others, look at the AAA (American Atheist Association). From my standpoint religion should not, and emphisis upon not, be taught in schools, should only be practiced in a church (or whatever) or home, and not in public, not on tv, and most esspecailly not around those not willing to convert to their "faith". Not to be utterly rude but, religion is a cacophony of conundrums, an undiscernable paradox, and a labrinth of lies. Hate it or love it, leave it or read it, I don’t care, that’s how I think on the matter of god and religion. Acid

User	Acid | 2006-06-08 |
Subject	untitled
Message	My impresion on the matter is that (and don’t hate me for being an atheist) there is no god... just plain and simple, I’ve never felt a convelecent care pouring through me with the pure hearted radiation of a guy who died two thousand years ago’s love. I’m sorry but to put it logically can anyone tell me, with absolute proof, that there is in fact an almighty deity. To me it’s like believing in santa claus, none of it adds up. And from a scientific point of veiw it holds no ground, yes there are things on earth (and other planets) that are wonderful and mysteious, but to believe that a... thing put them all there, please define me the word ludicrous. I think that it’s just the manifest of a human’s point of veiw that created a ’god’ to put all of their emotional baggage on. And I’m harping mostly on Christians here, because they had the "great" idea to spread their "faith" across the land, shunning those who believed in thier own path and converting their offspring. I’m sorry for the rant and all but whos to say that there is no "god", me... and not just me, but many others, look at the AAA (American Atheist Association). From my standpoint religion should not, and emphisis upon not, be taught in schools, should only be practiced in a church (or whatever) or home, and not in public, not on tv, and most esspecailly not around those not willing to convert to their "faith". Not to be utterly rude but, religion is a cacophony of conundrums, an undiscernable paradox, and a labrinth of lies. Hate it or love, leave it or read it, I don’t care, that’s how I think on the matter of god and religion. Acid

User	kanu | 2006-06-03 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Its interesting how people in general are so against religion as unbeneficial etc atc and there are so many prohibitions surrounding teaching it like in schools etc - but in prisons (which deal primarily with relinquishing people of their improper activities - whether the penal system are successful or not is another thread ...) they open the doors wide open (forgive the pun) and welcome all sorts of religious instructions - one priest when asked where he thought the best place to learn about god in replied "In jail" because there is so much literature and facility to concentrate on scripture and reflect on one’s life. Also the 12 step program of AA - while not intrinsically religious bears obvious parrallels to the self development one can acquire through the practice of religion. Ghosty for you to just come out and say stuff like that is really low grade - you would be better off focusing that razor sharp perception of yours on your own activities and at least benefit yourself since as it stands you can’t benefit anyone with loose comments without any intelligent grounds

User	ghostknight | 2006-06-03 |
Subject	untitled
Message	wash your nose. got some brown caked on there.

User	mae | 2006-06-02 |
Subject	untitled
Message	I for one, bear my own witness that Jesus is the Christ, without whom I would have already been doomed. And I shall stand with you, Blue Monk. Well said. mae