|| Replies ||

User	joeyalphabet | 2006-05-05 |
Subject	To: onetruesmartass
Message	I realize that you might be so desperate to take a low paying job (sorry you’re in that predicament, BTW), but most people won’t. There would be a small percentage, but living in a minority dominated area, I’ve noticed a lot more people willing to shirk than are willing to work.

User	Toxic_Rayne | 2006-05-04 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Trap’s right, we’re all imigrants in the blood stream

User	onetruesmartass | 2006-05-04 |
Subject	untitled
Message	You bring up a very good point, Lost Sheep. How is it possible that these people are here living, working and going to school without the proper paperwork? Why aren’t the companies that thrive by hiring illegal immigrants being shut down or fined heavily? I also agree, Joey that a work program would be a great idea, but at the same time there are American citizens here that are desperately trying to find work, myself included, and don’t have the snobby idea that scrubbing a toilet is beneath me. I just feel before we should open our borders to let others have a good life, we need to make sure that those that are born here, or are here legally are taken care of. I’m sorry that things are so bad in Mexico that they are willing to risk death to get here, but at the same time, part of me feels that maybe if they put that energy into fixing their country, they wouldn’t be trying so hard to get here. Oh, and LIB, I wouldn’t disagree with you, I feel the failures of 2nd and 3rd world countries are put soley on the shoulders of the people, be it for genetic matters or not. *onetruesmartass*

User	joeyalphabet | 2006-05-03 |
Subject	untitled
Message	The problem has gotten so bad, Lost Sheep, because up until 9/11, the border service was not a priority and therefore remained undermanned and underfunded for decades (and you’re not going to correct that problem in a year or 2, either). Another point to remember is that roughly 35-40% of the 12 million figure are people who originally entered the U.S. LEGALLY. Their visas have lapsed or they have been trying to get permanent status for a long time. I think for illegals who have been here a while (say, more than 6 or 8 years) and have kids born here (who are automatically citizens), working and obeying the laws (other than being here illegally of course), they should have a path provided to citizenship – not amnesty – a path, a process they need to work through. It should NOT be a free pass. LIB makes some points, but let’s face it: wages for jobs like cleaning bathrooms and picking fruit wouldn’t go up a hell of a lot if illegals weren’t able to get them, and I am quite sure there wouldn’t be long lines of applicants either, so let’s be realistic about that. The government could spend billions on border patrols and walls (which is exactly what’s in the House bill) and people will find a way to get in anyway. It’s much more realistic to have a work program for these people than to waste money chasing them all over the border and making transporters rich by taking advantage of desperate people and dead people out there in the desert.

User	Lost Sheep | 2006-05-03 |
Subject	untitled
Message	There area a couple of things that concern me about this entire illegal immigrant issue. First, aside from the issue of whether they should be here or not, how has our government failed so miserably in letting the problem get this bad? Sure, we can’t police every square inch of the border, but how are these people holding jobs, getting their kids in school and generally living the American lifestyle without the proper paperwork? To be successful and hold a legal job in the US, an illegal immigrant not only has to get across the border, he has to come up with a social security card and probably a driver’s license. Either the government in handing these out to everyone without bothering to check, or employers aren’t being properly monitored. Shutting down companies breaking the law used to be normal. Secondly, I think there’s a big difference between an Irishman standing on Ellis Island during the potato famine and a Mexican sneaking across the border tonight. First and foremost the immigrants of the past entered the country legally. They filled out paperwork, listing their name, occupation and country of origin. Most of them already had housing arrangements, either from family or through settlement programs organized by the railroads and others. In any event, they came with their savings, as small as it might have been, and went immediately to work at prevailing wages. They might have taken on some of the less glamorous work, but they still demanded a liveable wage, so they weren’t hurting the working people already here. It’s also a much different world now than it was then. In the late 1800s and early 1900s the Native American population had been virtually exterminated by disease and later by war. (There’s no doubt they were treated unjustly, but that’s another topic). There was free land to be had everywhere and jobs were plentiful and growing. Every additional person added to the US added something to the country. In today’s world, the land is full, the job market is stagnant and we’re already dealing with population issues. Every additional person the US adds to the crowding and our environmental problems. The decision to let in immigrants or not is a different one.

User	mae | 2006-05-03 |
Subject	untitled
Message	LIB- but there’s no such thing as ’ancestors’ when going 400 years back into the past, unless you mean all 65,000 of them. What ARE you talking about? From Dictionary.com Main Entry: an·ces·tor Function: noun 1 a : a person from whom an individual is descended LIB-This bullshit of "my ancestors were illegal immigrants" sounds like left wing propaganda some people easily fall for. It keeps amazing me how gullible people are. If you will note, when referring to my own ANCESTORS, I put the words ’illegal immigrants’ in quotes. There were, of course, no illegal immigrants back then. The post before mine had referred to that person’s predecessors as illegal immigrants. I was simply using their terminology. And your particular opinion of the U.S. means less than nothing to me. mae

User	in_a_trap | 2006-05-03 |
Subject	untitled
Message	we are all descenedants of immagrants, except for the 100% native americans, we are all come from another country, but the fact is for the whole immagration issue is the money. also, the government put the whole immagration law for a reason, if it keeps on going like it is then we will end up like china and japan, over populated. the one fact that really gets to me is that the illgeal mexicains are sending 20 billion dollars back to mexico every year and that is money that the americans could be using. think about the people who have to struggle to get by every month because they can not work due to illness and are on a fixed income. but then immargrants can come into this nation get a green card and get welfare, food stamps, solcail sucrity and everything that the government offers with no problem. think about it. courtney

User	mae | 2006-05-03 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Toxic, aside from deporting illegal immigrants, what would you have our government do? Cut off their feet so they can’t come back over? And LIB, you’re just so...weird. I don’t know who posted the comments above in support of immigrants, but I too am a descendant of the first "illegal immigrants". My ancestors came over in 1629. They were welcomed by those who were here then, both earlier immigrants and natives. Those immigrants came for a better life just as immigrants do, now. And that was defined in a variety of ways, jobs, land, religion, etc. The difference between those immigrants and these is that there was no welfare or schools or other safety nets. The immigrants arriving centuries ago, even in the 1800s, worked for everything and demanded nothing more than the chance to do just that. While immigrants now say all they want is a chance to work and earn a better life, they are also on welfare rolls, sending their children to schools and partaking of other social services paid for by U.S. and state taxes. If they are legal immigrants, they, too, pay taxes and I have no argument with their use of these services. But illegal immigrants, who are breaking the law just by being here, don’t pay taxes and don’t contribute to our society, should not be demanding the same things. Illegal immigrants take from our country, even if the job they do are jobs that Americans don’t want to do. They do not give back. And I do not consider doing those jobs ’giving back’ when they don’t pay taxes on the income they make from those jobs. They are not of lower IQ just because they are illegal, but they really should not be demanding the same rights and services that are granted to citizens and LEGAL immigrants to this country. mae

User	| 2006-05-02 |
Subject	untitled
Message	let me say one thing breifly and then i wont comment here again since having this debate here on elite is not really the right forum... UNLESS you are 100% Native American (like Navajo, or Seminole, etc) then you are an Immigrant or descended from them... I am a descendant myself and my ancestors where among the first ILLEGAL immigrants in this country- the Pilgrims... just because the land was claimed by Europe and European laws allowed them to come to this land doesnt make it legal or right... and yet no one blaims the Pilgrims for invading and taking the Natives land, jobs, and introducing disease that killed thousands... Every generation has its own Immigration problem... the Irish influx in the mid 1800’s... Asians in the late 1800’s, and of course Latinos now... but each group, in there own way has influenced and changed this great country... namely by doing the jobs that "lazy, obese, stupid Americans" do not want... they clean the motels, build the houses, build roads, cook the fast food, etc... the jobs are there and someone has to do them... but you dont see lines of americans anywhere waiting for job, while immigrants are willing to do just about anything for a chance to taste the american dream AND how exactly do you propose we close the border and prevent this immigration... it is us, the American Consummer who demands cheaper goods and services, and it is the immigrants that provides those goods and services... i will gladly do day labor (construction, cleaning, etc) for anyone who asks, but i charge up too $200 per hour for my dignity, while someone else will do it for minimum wage... who are you going to hire... EXACTLY!!!!! Immigrants make this country function... that is the simple truth... without them it would be a few days, if not just a few hours, before the entire economy collasped and we became a struggling 3rd world nation... oh and LIB, $1 million says that i can find 25 million "illegals" who can post higher test scores in any subject you name... the fact that you even argued intelligence here makes me extremely confidant and willing to risk that kind of money, so name the time and place and i’ll be there with 25 million illegals for you to attempt to best

User	Toxic_Rayne | 2006-05-02 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Okay, i’m a little confused on this subject. I can understand them wanting to come here to have a better life (they’re looking in the wrong place though) and wanting to leave all of their troubles behind. But, we pay for their children to go to school here and if you go across into their country we’d get no such treatment. So, it’s not equal on both sides. lol, one of my friends sugested that we just take over Mexico and make it part of the United States, haha. But, the question I ask myself, if they have nothing to hide, why don’t they regesture legally instead of running from our fucked up government? Yet, the gov. doesn’t do a damn thing about, so I ask you this...if so many people commit a crime, and there’s no punnishment for it, is it still a crime? *Tox*

User	onetruesmartass | 2006-05-02 |
Subject	untitled
Message	You’re absolutely right. (huh, that didn’t hurt nearly as much as I thought it would) And I should have also added the question as to why these people that are here illegally think they have the right to protest and feel they should be treated as equal American citizens. Also, I’ve heard it said that the reason they’re here illegally is because it’s too hard to get into America legally. Gosh, that would kinda tell ya something, wouldn’t it? Mexico doesn’t want it’s poor, and neither do we. *onetruesmartass*