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User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-18 |
Subject	Just an idea...
Message	The world is a thing of utter inordinate complexity and richness and strangeness that is absolutely awesome. I mean the idea that such complexity can arise not only out of such simplicity, but probably absolutely out of nothing, is the most fabulous extraordinary idea. And once you get some kind of inkling of how that might have happened ’ it’s just wonderful. And . . . the opportunity to spend 70 or 80 years of your life in such a universe is time well spent as far as I am concerned - Douglas Adams

User	Chell | 2006-09-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	While we’re quoting others...one of my favorite exchanges about religion was in the movie Dogma between Rufus (The balck, 13th apostle) and Bethany )the last scion) Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, but especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it. Bethany: Having beliefs isn’t good? Rufus: I think it’s better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can’t generate. Life becomes stagnant. Granted, it’s a bit irreverant, but still very true...

User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	There’s a parallel, God picked the Jews and all they ever did was let Him down. It’s a very forgiving God we have.

User	Darth Zeus | 2006-09-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Well I have tried to get to know Him for a very long time. But I have changed, I don’t believe anymore, I don’t get a feel out of it. But there’s this piece I like to quote, out of catcher in the rye, what Holden says about Jesus, I find it pretty funny [it is not offending in anyway]: "I like Jesus and all, but I don’t care too much for most of the other stuff in the Bible. Take the Disciples,for instance. They annoy the hell out of me, if you want to know the truth. [........] All they did was keep letting Him down. I like almost anybody in the Bible better than the Disciples. [.........] He (some religious boy he used to know)kept telling me If I didn’t like the Disciples, then I didn’t like Jesus and all. He said that because Jesus picked the Disciples, you were supposed to like them. I said I knew He picked them, but that He picked them at random. I said he didn’t have time to go around analyzing everybody. I said I wasn’t blaming Jesus or anything. It wasn’t His fault that He didn’t have any time." Just had to quote that.

User	Magnolia Steele | 2006-09-17 |
Subject	untitled
Message	*ducks in a corner* I don’t know him...at least not well. I am grateful for his gift of life, not sure if that adds up to love. As for like...I do, I just don’t understand him. And no, I can’t give you a definate why on any of what I just said. *runs back out the door.* Catrina

User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-16 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Luke 17 (in context) 20 Asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he said in reply, "The coming of the kingdom of God cannot be observed, 21 and no one will announce, ’Look, here it is,’ or, ’There it is.’ For behold, the kingdom of God is among you." 22 Then he said to his disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23 There will be those who will say to you, ’Look, there he is,’ (or) ’Look, here he is.’ Do not go off, do not run in pursuit. 24 For just as lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be (in his day). 25 But first he must suffer greatly and be rejected by this generation. 26 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of Man; 27 they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up to the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Similarly, as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building; 29 on the day when Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained from the sky to destroy them all. 30 So it will be on the day the Son of Man is revealed. The age thing - bear in mind that Noah lived much of his life before the flood. Also look at the relative ages of those carefully documented before and after the flood. It’s relatively easy to see a pattern developing.

User	rouge wave | 2006-09-14 |
Subject	time, time, time...
Message	The Coming of the Kingdom of God (Luke 17) 20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, ’Here it is,’ or ’There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within (also among, or in your midst) you." (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2017&version=31) From Wikipedia.com: Basileia tou theou was commonly translated into English as “Kingdom of God” in the New Testament, and refers to the reign or sovereignty of God over all things. (The same thing as saying basileia tōn ouranōn, only this means Kingdom of Heaven because, mainly Mathew, didn’t want to take the lord’s name in vain – and was directed to a more Jewish audience.) From a purely etymological viewpoint, Basileia is believed to have derived from the greek word for base or foundation. By His (Jesus) sinless life, and through His miracles, He demonstrated what the Kingdom of Heaven would be like. The Jesus Seminar is a research team of about two hundred academic New Testament scholars founded in 1985 by the late Robert Funk under the auspices of the Westar Institute. The seminar’s purpose is to determine what Jesus, as a historical figure, may or may not have said or done. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar) The Jesus Seminar has chosen to translate basileia as ‘empire.’ From me: Taking into acount that the Aramaic word which means ’kingdom’ also means ’government,’ I believe Jesus was talking of a kingdom which he would rule litterally. Let’s not forget that Hebrews, Jews and the like first came from Egypt where Pharos were considered gods (and they all underwent a figurative death and rebirth, with use of narcotics). Jesus stating that he was the son of God isn’t that spectacular of a claim: people have been claiming that for centuries (although not specifically ’son’ but more of ’state of being’). What Jesus (the name Jesus, as I’ve stated, meaning ’saviour’ or ’messiah’) must have had a political standpoint and wanted to unite his people under one body of belief – which wasn’t uncommon to try to do; a contemporary example of this is today many people in America are Christian and every president that I can think of has also been Chrsitian; the people in Afaganistan are Muslim. From my understanding, Jerusalem was The Promised Land and was destined to be Jesus’ kingdom; Jerusalem is also noted as being "the holiest city of Judaism." Post-flood ages: (from "Into the Bermdua Triangle" by Gian Quasar) Noah – 950 years Shem – 600 Arphaxad – 535 Cainan – 460 Shelah – 460 Eber – 404 Peleg – 339 Regau – 339 Seruch – 330 Nachor – 304 Tarra – 205 ABRAHAM – 175 Gian explains the properites of a ’water canopy’ that used to encompass the globe, under the ozone; so that we would litterally at one point had two ozone layers. The direct benefit of this extra ozone is less radiation from the sun. The properties of the ozone itself, he states, is that the most significant factor must be that there was more helium in the atmosphere; something must have caused a decrease in helium at some point around Noah and Shem’s life (hence the flood). I bring this up to validate actual religious context; that I actually believe that what the bible says happened (so don’t dub me a non-believer). But more importantly I wanted to draw a parellel with what is going on in today’s world with the worlds that have passed before us. If you find the age thing a little hard to swallow, in his book, Gian explains an underwater observance dome where one of its crew members cut themself badly and deep. Above sea level, the cut would have been severe. They had planned on sending the man up the next morning to seek medical attention. What had happened – and being so far below sea level there was an increase of helium in the atmosphere – was that the man’s hand healed far beyond any conceptual expectations. once again I’m short on time – think phantom limbs

User	| 2006-09-14 |
Subject	untitled
Message	emptiness is loneliness and loneliness is cleanliness and cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like me!

User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-14 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Rouge - From your: "I don’t see how the Lord would want anything... Pretty sure Jesus said that Heaven is on this earth..." I must assume that you have never considered any study of the bible. However, you could be called close on this one, you only lack the "evidence": " Our imagination likes to project itself in indefinable ways that we lose touch sometimes of what is possible, what is real or what can be obtained for certain. Hopefulness is what we all have and faith is a modified version of what we hope to get." Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." If you are at all familiar with the Buddhist concept of nirvana, imagine if you will that their highest attainment cannot come close to being in the Holy presence of God.

User	rouge wave | 2006-09-13 |
Subject	dont have time
Message	I don’t see how the Lord would want anything of human quality. If he is an all-knowing spirit/being, it wouldn’t desire any material thing that we consider on daily basis. And the whole thing that "God created man in his image" is rubbish. We can just as easily degenerate into animals as we have gained intelligence over several millennia. Cell division and mutation isn’t uncommon; DNA continues to mutate with each passing generation. Hear about the three-armed baby in China? Maybe in a few more hundred years we’ll start looking more like that Hindu god, and then we’ll be made in her image. We can continue to look at the bible for every spiritual and religious definition, utilizing the book as a cyclopedia of the supernatural, but even Dictionaries are modified regularly. Remember "fag" just meant cigarette? Remember "gay" just meant to be happy? Now I think that’s just gay to think the bible is absolute truth, written with direct correspondence with historical activities – however, it does reflect the propriety, ideologies and philosophy of the people of those times and should not be discarded as irrelevant. Pretty sure Jesus said that Heaven is on this earth, that there is no afterlife – that you must be reborn while you are still alive. This whole concept of eternal happiness is only material desire as counterpart with mortality; that men and women come to like feeling how they do at certain times (happiness) and want it to continue for eternity in ecstasy and bliss. Receptors in the brain, the most complex and powerful human asset, recognize things that our body likes, things that agree with our wellness. Our imagination likes to project itself in indefinable ways that we lose touch sometimes of what is possible, what is real or what can be obtained for certain. Hopefulness is what we all have and faith is a modified version of what we hope to get.

User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	What Jesus says about him and his Father: John 14: 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." 8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father’? 10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. How great is God and what does he expect of us? Isaiah 66: 1 Thus says the LORD, "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest? 2 "For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD. "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

User	joeyalphabet | 2006-09-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Ghost, I don’t know how you come to that conclusion. I think human beings can know God. I just think it’s different for each person. So, then the question becomes, how do you communicate such a subjective experience?

User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-13 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Chell - God has the benefit of being timeless, he can see you through your future. He also knows what does or does not happen to anyone after death, while all we know is what we’re told. Ghost - The bible knows God, I try to know the bible. Pretty humble if you ask me.

User	ghostknight | 2006-09-12 |
Subject	untitled
Message	buddy blue, you’re sounding a bit brainwashed there. "feel free to wander aimlessly until you see Jesus for yourself and then know what’s right. " i’m curious, if no man can know god, what gives you any right to say something so arrogant? hmm.

User	Chell | 2006-09-12 |
Subject	untitled
Message	There’s some argument about free will… Exodus 9:12 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart… Joshua 11:20 For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, Romans 8: 29-30 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Eph. 1:3, 6, 11 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace.. Can anyone help me understand how it is that God decides who we are and how we are to act, but that we have free will???

User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-12 |
Subject	untitled
Message	The other alternative, how about doing it for the love of God and mankind and knowing finally that He loves you that much. Otherwise, feel free to wander aimlessly until you see Jesus for yourself and then know what’s right. Dogmatic? Perhaps... The Bible is so much more than a "book". dogma: 2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

User	ghostknight | 2006-09-12 |
Subject	untitled
Message	"we are free to believe in Jesus as the one and only savior from the weight of our sins so that we may live in heaven forever, or elsewise we are free to burn in hell for just as long." based on your own example, free will has no foundation. without choosing to be born into this life, we must now make the ’decision’ to beg forgiveness for sins we are destined to commit. according to your faith we are being punished for the sins commited by the original two people god created. according to your faith god created those two with ’free will’ knowing full well what was going to happen- he’s god. according to your faith simply because they used the free will that god gave them, upon their first sin they were banished from the garden and condemned to death, and their sin is passed along to every descendant. the insanity of this should be evident. free will by your faith’s definition is a joke. we MUST make the choice to be ’saved’ or else our loving, caring god will condemn us to an eternity of isolation and suffering. i won’t even go into the whole jesus thing, it’s too clearly based on a weak foundation already. when the only two choices are heaven or hell, we have no free will. those of us with intelligence have no choice. we wouldn’t be following the faith to be saved, we’d be doing it so that we wouldn’t burn forever. there’s a huge difference.

User	rouge wave | 2006-09-12 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Right, don’t like it. You seem more dogmatic than anything, blue boy. I’m going to keep searching, perusal various articles and books on the subject. I won’t simply accept what’s so widely believed to be the story of Jesus. How many times has our history books been wrong? How many times have the textbooks in our schools been created solely on Whiteman’s perspective? Seven. No, I’m kidding; I don’t know how many times but that’s the point. Start looking.

User	Blue Monk | 2006-09-11 |
Subject	untitled
Message	We do have free will, we are free to believe in Jesus as the one and only savior from the weight of our sins so that we may live in heaven forever, or elsewise we are free to burn in hell for just as long. No one else can make that choice for you, how free can you get? Jesus condemns no one, he’s just lovingly and thoughtfully pointed out the things by which people have already condemned themselves. Is there any doubt that we are by our own human nature truly unworthy to be in the presence of a Holy God except for the sacrifice that Jesus made? That is the plan of salvation, open to all. If you never read anything else, read the story of Jesus in the New Testiment of the Bible and about what he said and did. World history continues to revolve around him whether the skeptics like it or not.

User	ghostknight | 2006-09-11 |
Subject	untitled
Message	jesus spanks my booty and calls me a sinner. he tells me i’m going to burn in hell unless i lose my free will. why? he says it’s because he loves me. isn’t he the greatest?