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User	onetruesmartass | 2006-11-01 |
Subject	untitled
Message	*shivers* The very idea just made my halloween spooky! lol If our gov’t was a theology, you can bet most of our freedoms would be gone. I don’t know if there is one denomination that would be scarier than the others. Fundamentalist Christians are kind of freaky, but then so are Mormons, JW’s (kiss Christmas goodbye) and Orthodox Judism (not a slam, I’m a Jew). Wasn’t there a religion a few years ago that based their theology on the gift and wonders of sex? They might be fun in office. *onetruesmartass*

User	Blue Monk | 2006-10-19 |
Subject	untitled
Message	"I’m sure I’m supposed to understand the analogy... " Any analogy is meant to be drawn only on a personal level. Perhaps while on the freeway of our desires to understand God we bypass an obvious path that has been laid before us by Him. Maybe it’s a case of trying too hard, being too analytical in the face of what should come naturally. (Mark 10:13-16) Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. "Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it." And He took them up in His arms, put His hands on them, and blessed them. Consider: Many have strayed for the sake of confusion, innocence lost from child, youth to adult, faith in the Father, Spirit and Son, fall way to selfishness, lies and illusion. "Sky Blue" - Blue Monk, 2001

User	mae | 2006-10-19 |
Subject	untitled
Message	"when one talks to believers and ask them why they hold onto what they believe, I think it’s best to start the conversation from a common starting point. ...Regardless of the lack of actual historical proof.)" {Chell} mae - You cannot call it a common starting point if you already have an agenda or a mindset about someone else’s beliefs. If you think it is important that they "know" that their beliefs are not "original", then you are not starting from a common point. You are, instead, trying to discredit their beliefs and bring them around to your viewpoint. If you want to start from a common point, then you must accept the validity of their beliefs, even if you don’t share them, because, obviously, they feel they ARE valid. " The Bible talks about slavery being acceptable, about women being possesions,..." {Chell} mae - My Bible does not say that slavery is acceptable. It accepts that slavery existed but it makes no comment on whether or not it is acceptable. It also does not call women possessions. Quite the opposite, actually. It talks about the interdependence of men and women and that in a marriage each partner is to be subject to the other. Both slavery and the ’ownership’ of women and children were societal/political customs. The Bible, from beginning to end, deals with issues on a personal basis, not societally nor politically. God changes societies one person at a time, not as a whole. mae

User	mae | 2006-10-19 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Cana nyone name one "Original" idea within Christianity? One that wasn’t previous believed about someone else, or used by another religion? The concept of a living PERSONAL God who is concerned and involved with every aspect of your life, not just with mankind in general, but with YOU. mae

User	Chell | 2006-10-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Hey dismentled, Can you help me find the historical evidence of Jesus Christ actually living? I’ve been looking for a long time and can’t seem to find any. Is it on a web site? A historical document, maybe from the Jews or the Romans, that discusses him actually living? Maybe part of the problem is that ’Christ’ isn’t his real name. It’s a title. Jesus (Yeshua) was a common name of the day, but Christ is a title; it means "the Anointed One." Maybe because we don’t know his real name we can’t find him in historical records. I was excited when I heard about an ossuary bearing the inscription Ya`aqov bar Yosef akhui Yeshua` ("James son of Joseph brother of Jesus") in November of 2002. Unfortunately, it was a forgery. If it had been authentic it would have been the first archaeological proof that Jesus existed. (That would have been cool.)

User	Chell | 2006-10-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	I’m sure I’m supposed to understand the analogy... think, think...think, think...signs ...lanes... exits... hmmmm. Can I get a hint? Are we talking about the signs of the last days? Like, a one-world government, plagues, crime and rebellion, wars and rumors of wars, the return of the Jews to Israel, signs from the heavens, and devastating disasters? I can’t help but wonder a bit about self-fulfilling prophesy... the U.N. brought to pass the State of Israel and has been slowly introducing the concept of a world government with strong support from the U.S. (a predominantly christian country). But there have been others who have tried and failed at the same concept; Napoleon, Hitler, the Huns...is it really the fulfilling of prophesy or just the next attempt of greedy souls to rule the world? This link- http://www.harpazo.net/101/List.html -takes you to a very convincing web site about signs of the last days, and it does pose many interesting interpretations of prophesy. But, if you believe you’ll personally benefit by bringing something to fruition, is it God’s will causing them to come to pass, or could it be mans vain attempt to prove superiority of faith? (Or is there no difference between the two?) I guess, if I hop online one day and find a third of all the people have disappeared so I can’t banter with the good Christians on this site, I’ll rest uncomfortably for the rest of my life knowing you’re all happily living in the bliss of God’s love and that I’m destined for hell. (Note to self- buy stock in icecubes.)

User	dismentled | 2006-10-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Yes, there is historical evidence about Jesus living. I’m not talking about followers of "god or gods", but of a living being at one point in time. Followers of him. Kinda like how Allyster Crowly had followers(just to give an example). As far as heaven, that’s only under the pretence that there actaully is a "god" and it created a "heaven"

User	Blue Monk | 2006-10-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Did you ever drive through a relatively large US city on a freeway with numerous on and off ramps? Sometimes if you miss a ramp, you must go onwards for many miles in the wrong direction before you can get back on the right path to where you wish to go. It helps to keep your eyes watching for the signs and to be prepared by being in the proper lanes to begin with. The danger is that you could otherwise end up in a bad neighborhood.

User	Chell | 2006-10-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Historical proof? Are you referring to the historical comments of Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, or Lucian? I’ll admit they all mention Christ’s followers - years, even centuries after his death- but is there any evidence of the man’s existance? I mean we know for a fact that Zeus and Hera, Aphrodite and Hercules had followers, does that mean they were real too? Help a poor girl out here, I have yet to find any historical evidence of the man, not the followers. As for heaven- if you really want to get technical, heaven will be exactly what God makes it, and you’ll either agree he did a good job and call it heaven, or you’ll disagree because it’s not what you expected and it’ll be your hell for eternity- if I understand dogma right...

User	dismentled | 2006-10-18 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Hmm, virgins in heaven. If it’s heaven, wouldn’t that kinda contradict itself if it gave you virgins? Or am I the only guy who prefers someone who’s actaully been touched and has some inkling to what shes’ doing? Also," I love how you write as if it actually happened." It did happen, there’s no disputing that, there is historical evidence. That has no bearing what so ever as to him being the son of "god", if there is one that is. Jesus did live, and he did have followers; that is historically accurate. Now if he was anything "more" than man, that is up for you to decide. Most people seem to ignore the deception and manipulation of religion. Not because beliefs in themselves are such, but because people are. Man was born with beliefs, but created religion. Hence as it comes from man it’ll always, to some degree be corrupt.

User	Chell | 2006-10-17 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Yeah, well when one talks to believers and ask them why they hold onto what they believe, I think it’s best to start the conversation from a common starting point. When talking to Christians (or non-Christians who follow Christ) I think it’s best to start with the fact that they believe that the Bible is historically accurate. (Regardless of the lack of actual historical proof.) All I want people to do is a bit of research to understand where those beliefs (any religious beliefs) originated. Christianity has changed with the times. The Bible talks about slavery being acceptable, about women being possesions, men not cutting their sidelocks, no work being done on the Sabbath, and about circumcision being a covenant with God. Many of these idiologies have changed or been dropped altogether in order for the religion to be more palatable for it’s followers and to adhere to the laws of the land. Is it such a stretch of the imagination for one to believe that early Christianity wasn’t changed for the same reasons?

User	Chell | 2006-10-17 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Even the giving of Christmas gifts is pagan in origin. The Magi brought gifts for Jesus, so it must be Christian to give presents at Christmas, right? But, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the religion of the Magi was fundamentally that of Zoroaster. Zorastrianism is a belief in a struggle between good and evil. There is one Eternal God "Ahura Mazda". The one Eternal God called on minor gods from ancient Persian religions such as Mithua (Mithra) to fight against "Angra mainyu" the spirit of evil. Keep in mind that when the Magi brought Jesus gifts they were not Christians. Christianity didn’t exist when Christ was born. They were looking to celebrate the return of Mithra- their savior.

User	Chell | 2006-10-17 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Cana nyone name one "Original" idea within Christianity? One that wasn’t previous believed about someone else, or used by another religion? Pick one. Any tenet- virgin birth, son of a God, died for sins, overcame the dead, healed the sick, taught love, had a sacrament- these are all concepts used PREVIOUSLY in other religions. There’s no new thought, just a new name on some old beliefs. As for Christians adopting Heathen (Pagan) ways: Here’s a quote from the good book: Jeremiah 10:2-4 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." And then a set of lyrics from one of my favorite Christmas songs: SILVER AND GOLD Silver and gold, silver and gold Ev’ryone wishes for silver and gold How do you measure it’s worth? Just by the pleasure it gives here on earth. Silver and gold, silver and gold Mean so much more when I see Silver and gold decorations On ev’ry Christmas tree. Hmmmmmm, interesting.

User	ghostknight | 2006-10-17 |
Subject	untitled
Message	so does the evidence, and also, correct me if i’m wrong, historical proof.

User	mae | 2006-10-17 |
Subject	untitled
Message	. Most of chritianity is believed to have been derived from Wicca. Oh, good grief! Any more religions out there that people want to say or infer Christianity sprang from? The list just keeps growing! mae

User	dismentled | 2006-10-16 |
Subject	untitled
Message	That is not Wicca, at least not the way I understand it! Wicca is just a little older than the 50’, say by about 4 millenium or so. Most of chritianity is believed to have been derived from Wicca. So obviouily it’s just a little older than that. However, many people do assocaite Wicca with witchcraft; it is however a Pagan "art". In the broadest of all terms, that is.

User	ghostknight | 2006-10-16 |
Subject	untitled
Message	no offense, but wicca is very much a watered down version of the real thing. look up the gaelic arts, even the egyptian practices. wicca started in the late 1950’s as an attempt to break away from traditional methods- why it happened seems childish and pointless, but nevermind that. maybe people today say ’wicca’ and really mean witchcraft or pagan arts. i dunno. the word ’wicca’ to an old school follower of pagan arts tends to make them chuckle at the misinterpretation and modern attempt to claim a new and separate identity.

User	dismentled | 2006-10-15 |
Subject	untitled
Message	I DID NOT say that if you don’t understand Wicca you are intolerant or judgemental! I said for those who are incompitant, ignorant who DO NOT understand. I did not say anything about people who don’t know about Wicca being intolerant or judgemental! Also I said NOTHING of inteeligence, I said ignorance, simply meaning, NOT KNOWING, that’s it. I am more than aware of the difference between stupidity and ignorance. I am not offended or inttolerant to ignorance, not anybody can know everything. And I did not claim to know ALL of organized religions, cause you are right I do not. I know much about most; at least the big one’s like Christianity. I will howver admit you were/are right in certain regards(aside from me not knowing all of organized religion) I did not head my own advice. Nor will I try to justify not doing so. As I assumed you did, I took what I felt to be incinuations. And though my methods were perhaps less than, grand; my point is/was the same. The majority of people, or though it seems get Wicca, Satanism, and Satan worship mixed up. They are ALL different from one another. I myself am against no religion unless it teaches intolerance. Though,slightly hippocritical feasibally, I know(but can you name even 1 perosn who’s not to some degree?) my impatience(not intolernace) is for those who are intolerant based upon one’s beliefs. I do not imnpose my beliefs upon others; that is not my place. It is only when one asks, AND I feel comfortable that I may reply. Religious freedom is one of the greatest gifts as Americans we are born with. Along with freedom of speach(my favorite, personally). Yet, many people without actaully knowing the facts are intolerant. Confusion is often drawn from ignorance, by those who passingly judge.

User	mae | 2006-10-15 |
Subject	untitled
Message	Perhaps, dismentled, it would be good for you to follow your own advice. I wasn’t talking about your beliefs - I was talking about your statements. You called others who don’t know about Wicca intolerant and judgemental, yet you did so in a way that was in itself incredibly intolerant and judgemental. And my second point was that if people who don’t know about the beliefs of Wicca are somehow less intelligent (you called them incompetent and ignorant), then the same could be said for you as well, for I’m fairly certain you don’t know all the beliefs of all the organized religions. They vary widely. I never said a word about your beliefs. mae

User	| 2006-10-14 |
Subject	untitled
Message	How can you call it contradictory when you don’t know my beliefs? You are assuming my beliefs based upon my statement. I’ve NEVER said my beliefs, my beleifs are my bussiness, and are not for others to worry about. I’ve not claimed to be Wiccan, and I went to church for over 13 years, constantly volunteering, working in the youth group, AWANAS, and at one point in time even wanted to be a minister. So yes, I do know of organized religion! And call my statement "judgemental" if you will, that doesn’t denounce the relevance. Also, I wasn’t preaching Wicca, I said I do not want ANY religious sect. running a government; it is than that they use their "beliefs" to justify their actions. If any religion would rule, I would suggest Wicca. I never once said my beliefs, I only stated my opinion! If you’d pay a little more attention instead of jumping to conclusions so quickly you might have noticed that.