| User | Blue Monk | | Topic | Decriminalization | | Message | I have recently come to the conclusion that decriminalization of all drugs might not be such a bad idea. While it would increase the welfare/hospitalization load on society, my feelings are that this would be more than offset by the resulting decreases of costs in law enforcement, the judicial system and the prison population, all being a huge and growing burden currently being maintained by taxpayers.
There would be a predictable decrease in gang activity and drug related crimes and the related violence which also currently ends up costing us so much in both lives and dollars. The huge drop in (the failing) law enforcement efforts and prison costs plus a new tax on the currently illegal drugs like we have now for booze and tobacco could more than cover the necessary care of the idiots who will continue to abuse substances regardless. The bloody pushers and their suppliers could then be free to go to hell, broke! |
|| Replies ||
| User | NoMartyr | 2007-02-26 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | LSD is very safe if you’re not a dumbass. It’s not for everyone, but if you set up your taking it properly (your mindset, and physical setting) it’s as safe as milk. There are no dangers in overdosing from it, it’s hard to confuse with other drugs (there’s no chance of getting sold shit that they call LSD, because if it’s on paper, it can only be LSD). LSD isn’t addictive, and everyone that does it doesn’t have the urge to do it everyday.
Yeah, LSD isn’t for everyone, but there’s no reason why it should be categorized as unsafe really, and especially not categorized with other drugs like cocaine and heroin. It’s not even close to those drugs. |
| User | mae | 2007-02-23 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | You’re calling LSD safe? mae |
| User | NoMartyr | 2007-02-22 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | I’m pro-decriminalizing all drugs and all, but if we actually want to get something done about the unfair laws we should start slow, go one drug at a time.
If it’s done right, maybe we can get the safe drugs (LSD, Marijuana, Psilocybin, DMT [not to be confused with DXM], and Peyote) legalized or at least decriminalized. |
| User | Blue Monk | 2007-01-24 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Considering the crime directly attributable to the underground flow and use of drugs, their high cost as contraband, etc. - the economic attractiveness to continue producing and selling to so many waiting and eager users regardless of what current laws provide as opposed to the vast increase of tax revenue (like those for substances now being abused legally) and huge reduction in legal and penal costs which would follow, I still think there would be a net gain even after providing what medical, etc. services would have to increase over what they already are. Cash is king, the pushers have it, we don’t.
We have to either be more successful in reducing demand and abuse of such substances (not likely), or swallow the bitter pill of failure and try to mend our ways and do right for the millions of idiot abusers who will continue to elect to be criminals regardless of what laws they break. Put the pushers and their more organized higher ups into economic ruin.
Most people completely underestimate just how full and growing our prisons are, chiefly because of drug related crime. |
| User | mae | 2007-01-24 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Well, Blue, aside from the monetary savings, how do you see legalizing street drugs helping the situation? It won’t reduce the number of addicts, but will increase our social services costs. While our jails may benefit from less crowding, our hospitals and rehab centers will be overflowing. Wouldn’t we just be trading one problem for another?
mae |
| User | Blue Monk | 2007-01-24 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Yesterday I had a sixty something year old friend who is a retired high school principal who agreed completely with the sentiments expressed on this posting. Until people realize what a lost battle the current status is, we are doomed to spiral out of control. He also pointed out how much money is being controled by the legal and penal "system" - always at the expense of the taxpayers. They of course do not want any changes, even if it’s for the better.
Another friend in the education system said some of his students involved in "dope" told him that a prominent local JUDGE was the main supplier contact for the area. Law enforcement personel are also caught from time to time as being "dirty". Kind of reminds us of the good’ole days of prohibition, too much demand and too much money floating around to stop it. What are we to think if we see underpaid law enforcement personnel with three or four vehicles, boats, etc. parked at a half-million dollar house? Go figure...
Of course there’s always the solution provided by Singapore:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/01/15/singapore.executions.reut/index.html
And for those who have lots of free time:
(dated, but still good reading, check out the home page also)
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/case_for_ethan_p1.cfm |
| User | onetruesmartass | 2007-01-20 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | OKay, I’m not getting the connection of serial killers and smoking weed. See, this right here is the problem. People have this preconcieved idea that ALL drugs are evil and bad and that the people who use them are evil and bad. I’m not evil, I’m not bad...well, okay in the legal sense of the term (lol), and I smoke weed. I don’t abuse my children, I don’t starve them or make them go with out a single thing to get my "fix", I don’t put our clothing, food or shelter needs after my enjoyment of getting high and watching movies with friends, I don’t neglect my marriage or my job, I have never nor will I ever drive while high. What I do do is wait until my children are asleep and my husband is entertained by something else and I sit on the couch with my girlfriend and best friend and watch movies while smokin’ a bowl. No one leaves my house until sober and all evidence (candy wrappers mostly lol) is cleaned up. My children have no clue what I do while they’re asleep. I don’t smoke during the day, before work or while at work. Every single person I’ve bought from is an upstanding citizen who feels as I do that marijuana being illegal is wrong and stupid.
Oh, and for those that are curioius, I started smoking weed about three years ago. I fell on Christmas night while trying to take discarded wrapping paper out to the trash and broke my wrist, tore three layers of muscle and ripped my tendons from the bone. Needless to say, I was in pain. I am still in pain as my tendons are still trying to knit back together and where my wrist broke I now have pieces of bone that have fused onto other bones where they don’t belong. I am in pain. For three hours three times a week, I don’t hurt. I have a never ending prescription for pain pills that make me nauseous, hurt my stomach and on occasion have made me pass out. Excuse me for using weed to have a slight repreive from the pain.
Of course I’m not saying that all people who use legal or illegal drugs are like me. There are some that abuse it and take it too far. But where is it fair to the rest of us to take something away that actually improves our lives instead of hindering it?
*onetruesmartass* |
| User | ChickenLittle | 2007-01-17 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | also... onetruesmartass is right on the whole thing about Holland. Yea, they may have legalized it, if you want to do that shit, then go over there. We have ALOT of illegal immigrants coming over here and bringing drugs to our country... so by making it legal were pretty much going to make it ok for them to live here TAX FREE... im sorry, but if i have to pay taxes and drive a ford ranger, ill be damned if some illegal guy is gonna drive an escalade and not pay shit.... |
| User | ChickenLittle | 2007-01-17 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | THANK YOU OUTLAW. Not tryin to start anything, but i think that Bush is an idiot. Can you imagine what he would be like on drugs? Seriously... our government doesn’t need more problems that they already have |
| User | Chell | 2007-01-17 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | If we’re discussing our government we might want to keep in mind that our current administration is putting two border patrol guards in prison for shooting at an illegal alien carrying over 700 pounds of illegal drugs...
Where was that scotch? |
| User | Blue Monk | 2007-01-17 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | As they say in Washington D.C., "Let’s have a another shot of scotch to think it over." |
| User | Outlaw | 2007-01-17 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | I think if you let chicken’s logic get to the next level it has some sense of validity. They knew better in the first place and yet the drugs altered that judgment and lead them to ill-acts. What about that side of things? What if the people that are supposed to run the country and have a clearer mind than all of us got twisted high on drugs right before the UN meeting on nukes..... It’s a big what if, but you get our point don’t you? How would we be able to establish professionalism anymore? Where would responsibility begin?
Just consider it... |
| User | ChickenLittle | 2007-01-17 | | | Subject | ugh... | | Message | it was a comparason. You know that the drug abusers are killing young kids too? what about the children of these people? |
| User | Blue Monk | 2007-01-16 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | We’re just talking about drug laws here, not murder, etc. |
| User | ChickenLittle | 2007-01-16 | | | Subject | Uhh.. no | | Message | I think that the law should stay in effect. Why on earth would you want to drop that law?
So you’re telling me that there are too many serial killers out in the world and putting them in prison is costing us too much money so the better thing to do is let them be free? NO, thats bullshit.
What if that cerial killer kills you child while they are on their way to school? What if that drug abuser is the reason your best friend just died?
My point is, if they do wrong, they deserve to get punished. They knew right from wrong before they started drugs, so they should take their concequences.
|
| User | onetruesmartass | 2007-01-15 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Both Outlaw and BM have very good points and give alot to think about in regards to this issue. I would never want to see meth or heroin made legal, but at the same time, we’ve got to do something because what we’ve been doing isn’t working. Isn’t it said that the definition of stupidity is repeating the same action but expecting different results?
One thing I think might help is being honest with school kids and people about what these drugs do, good and bad. I tell my kids the consequences of what could happen, physically as well as emotionally and mentally. If you slap a Just Say No sticker on a notebook and shoo a kid off, all that will do is give her something to pick at while in english class. We need to be honest and pro active in our fight. How exactly to do that, I just don’t know.
*onetruesmartass* |
| User | Blue Monk | 2007-01-14 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | The numbers don’t lie. What we’re doing now does not work. It appears to be spiraling in not one, but two wrong directions - costs going upwards, benefits going downwards. If it was a stock or insurance plan, I’d sell. |
| User | Outlaw | 2007-01-14 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | And one of true democracy if you think it through... especially using chell’s earlier logic... My first comment wasn’t exactly against weed users as much as it was against weed grow-ops when I mentioned weed. Chell, and I realize this is a double sided argument, but you make it sound so careless to throw them in prison for drug abuse, and yet you make it sound so democratic if they died overdosing on the stuff because they chose to do so. Either way you look at it really, to a certain extent people will be overlooked and have to deal with cold realities, but any human-based organisation places human life above just about everything, and out of the two options, prison is less likely to lead to death compared to overdosing. Human kind is far from perfect, and ever farther from being efficient, but at least we’re making efforts to improve. Like Mae said, should we give up on other things just because they aren’t perfect? These are the kind of things that you have to look out for, if we leave things the way they are, outside drug producing influences will run wild, but if we let drug runs loose to go after those influences, don’t you think the system would crumble in on itself because of decadence, anarchy...?
Outlaw |
| User | mae | 2007-01-14 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | these manufacturers are going to make the crap regardless of the law.
But that’s true of every activity. Do we do away with speed limits because people will always speed? Do we make theft legal because there will always be thieves? What about murder? It makes no sense to legalize an activity that is contrary to the public good just because someone will continue to do even if it is illegal. That will simply lead us down a road straight to anarchy. mae |
| | |
