| User | Sandburg | | Topic | On writing | | Message | I’ve seen a few comments on site that surprise me. One is something along the lines of, "I never do revision".
I find that hard to believe. If you knew you spelled your name wrong would you fix it? OK, now we’re only arguing degrees.
The more fine tuned your work becomes the less content you will be with it. I think that it’s true that the first thought may well be the best thought. Some times we just don’t write it down the way we thought it! Sometimes it takes the cool of the morning after to allow us clear vision. (Sometimes I wake up and think it’s been a waste of a piece of paper!)
I think you sound more introspective if you state that you aren’t ready to revise yet. Some, I’m one, will revise within minutes. Sometimes something that looked perfect on paper looks wrong on the screen. There are others, probably the wiser ones, who want to let their ink cool for a good long time. Move on, write other pieces, create some emotional distance. Then return and see if there isn’t a better turn of phrase. I often find dead wood to prune out of my poems.
Another strange thing is the person who says they don’t write ___________.
Fill in the blank. The most common word is "rhyme".
Strange thing, you can’t give something up until you do it first. Until you run a marathon you can’t be an ex-marathon runner. Until you can write in rhyme you can’t say that you DON’T write rhyme. You can say that you CAN’T write it.
Imagine Tiger Woods not having a five iron in his bag. "Oh, I don’t use a five iron"
Nope. Some places he will need a five iron, and not only will he have one, he will be the best damned five iron striker on the course that day.
And sometime you will find that for the poetic idea you have, a rhyme would be the best way to write it. Or perhaps even a pantoum, or sonnet. You who don’t write free verse, well you are just on the opposite side of the coin. A very antiquated side too.
Now before you start to think that I am getting all puffed up and think too much of myself let me say,
I’m pretty sure that any English student starting his second year at university knows more than I do.
But I plan to learn more. What do you plan? |
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| User | Sandburg | 2005-01-29 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Good point, Rob, and I’m probably guilty of posting things here too soon. I just read Stephen King’s writing book, On Writing, a memoir of the craft. He advises against doing anything with your work for several weeks, and not showing it to anyone until you’ve had that time to reflect on it yourself. Then he only likes to show his work to certain readers who he knows and respects. I learned something from him, and you have seconded his motion. I still find it funny for someone to say they won’t ever revise though, as I said, would you fix it if you had your name spelled wrong?
Take care,
Dave |
| User | on1eday.co.uk | 2005-01-29 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | the revision argument is a good one.
it is very easy to get caught up with revising a piece based on what someone may have said, and before you know it you have changed it 50 times for 50 people only to get back to the start again.
it is very important to get the piece as nearly finished as possible in my opinion, before you post it here. tweaking is one thing, changing a piece on a whim to please others is another. this place is used almost as a diary but i dont see it that way. if you are fairly sure that a piece is complete then too many revisions should not be needed, and it is a matter of confidence in what you have written.
though i do agree that we should be open to everything, and not stuck in any one particluar way, because there is far more out there than than what we seen in through our own eyes.
i think this raises the issue of the balance of poetry and what it is/what it should be.
there is a constant power struggle between writing for yourself and writing for others, and this is relevant with regards to revisions, and i guess the successful ones usually gain some kind of equilibrium on that front. anything too introspective is probably written off as too ’abstract,’ and anything that is written too much for the candy of others probably lacks substance.
fu-ck it, take up golf.
im tiger woods.
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| User | cuddledumplin | 2005-01-29 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Aw, that was sweet, Dave. I probably should write something in other styles. I do experiment a lot. Most of the truly weird ones don’t get seen though. |
| User | besodemuerte | 2005-01-28 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | whoever double posts is an idiot... j/k but that wasnt very perfectionist like... |
| User | joeyalphabet | 2005-01-28 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | whoever said, i don’t revise is either an idiot, or a genius of mozart’s caliber. whichiever, it will be easy to tell from his/her work.
i revise and revise and revise, and then i revise some more. i actually e-mailed my professor in my creative writing class to ask him when i should stop revising the assignment.
being a perfectionist makes me go back over and over to past work and make changes. |
| User | joeyalphabet | 2005-01-28 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | whoever said, i don’t revise is either an idiot, or a genius of mozart’s caliber. whichiever, it will be easy to tell from his/her work.
i revise and revise and revise, and then i revise some more. i actually e-mailed my professor in my creative writing class to ask him when i should stop revising the assignment.
being a perfectionist makes me go back over and over to past work and make changes. |
| User | Sandburg | 2005-01-28 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Amy, I realize that if you aren’t using rhyme much any more, it’s not because you don’t have experience. I’d say you were most like Tiger. If you do need it, or want it, you’ll most likely have the best swing on the course that day, to mix a metaphor. |
| User | besodemuerte | 2005-01-27 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | i’m trying to get into different writing styles, but usually i just write what comes out... not really thinking about it... and yes, a lot of my stuff rhymes... it’s just what happens.. and people give me shit saying it must take a long time to think of the rhymes... but usaully i dont realize i do it at first.... i’m not gonna write anymore cause i’m pissed off right now and i dont wannna offend anyone or start arguements unintentionally... |
| User | cuddledumplin | 2005-01-27 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | For whom, I meant. |
| User | cuddledumplin | 2005-01-27 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | I think people are lying if they say that they DON’T write for themselves. It’s impossible to do otherwise. If you don’t write what you like, that’s selling out to me. People used to give Bob Dylan flack for not writing "for the people." I’m only me, not everyone. It’s impossible to please everyone, so you might as well please yourself. Most of the truly great writers likely got flack for their unusual styles. They all have flaws too. Joyce was long-winded. Hemingway was the opposite. ee cummings surely pleased himself with punctuation, and if Dickinson wasn’t writing for herself alone, for who was she writing? I take suggestions, but if I don’t agree with them, I don’t take them because I’m true to my own vision. If you write to conform to public opinion, you’ll never write anything worth the dead trees and ink it took to write. All great work is out there.
Well, somehow the rhyme thing sounds like I’m included in that. I have written rhyme. I’ve even posted rhymed work here. I wrote rhymed stuff for at least six years of my writing life. I just feel like it’s been done to death. I want to do something new. I don’t think that anyone can’t rhyme though. I know three-year-olds who are VERY good at it. I think the rhyme lovers are just as bad as the other side. If I read another doggeral, rhymed suicide poem, I think I might just shoot myself.
I also used to write metrical verse. I found it confining. I can’t be arsed to come up with perfect meter.
However, I do revise my work. I’ve been revising some works for twelve years, and I’ll likely be rewriting them until I die. |
| User | magnicat | 2005-01-16 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | right now i’m trying to challenge myself with formula writing, like haiku, tanka, sonnet... i normally write in free verse, and i rarely write in rhyme, but i’m becoming more open to experimenting with different styles. trying to broaden my horizons, as it were. i am also more open to revision. there are a few writers here that i respect highly, and i have used their critiques and suggestions to, i think, the betterment of some of my pieces. i do believe that i am growing and learning as a writer since i’ve been here. thanks, y’all! |
| User | | 2005-01-16 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | I try to experiment with different forms and styles. but mostly I just write what crosses my mind. and I have to say I don’t think in rhymes. I’m for a year on this site now and you won’t find a rhymed piece. all are free verse. why??
cause that’s how I write.
but never say never. as I started out my poems all had about ten lines and were depressing as hell. now you can find serious ones along with love poems. we all change our writing style. so maybe someday I write in rhymes. : )
well, as far as revising goes, I don’t do it usually. when I post things I’m so much content with them that they will stay this way forever. at least if I don’t get a really, really good suggestion to change it or my grammar isn’t far off (happens sometimes).
line me up under the ones who just write for themselves. I’m happy with that. : ) |
| User | raptures | 2005-01-13 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | As most people know I am working on learning different styles of writing. I one point I did not think I could, but now I see as I pop out , sometimes, very worthless poem that I am growing. It takes work and open- mindness to reach inside and go a different way with your writing. My personal feeling is that I am becoming a better writer though this. I found that even the simple childish rhyme can be fun while the more depth rhyming can also be heart- rendering. I also feel that the free verse leaves so many open doors that you can just about go anywhere with a poem. What a play ground we have! Just have to hop off the swings and explore. I don’t know where this quote came from, but I heard it alot from my grandmother and it goes .." Can’t never could do anything". I just want to add, that in comments that they recieve, the ones that contain imformation on how to better their poem... give it a try, rewite it in their ideas... You do not have to keep it this way, just check it out. I have done this a few times and found many that add so much more depth and cleared up the meaning more. It also muddled out a lot of useless words to make the poem easier to read and better on the eyes.
Dana |
| User | Sandburg | 2005-01-05 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Mr. Fizzle is correct to address the attitude but a bit off in confining his comments to young teenagers. I know fifty year olds with the same bad attitude. Seems once someone gets those ideas in their heads, they can be permenant. I just think it’s a matter of phrasing. I don’t think I’ll ever travel to Japan, but I wouldn’t phrase it as "I will never go to Japan" Shit happens. Plans change. I don’t plan to write a novel either, but that could change. If I decide I want to, I will do some studying about it first because right now, I would have to say that "I can’t write a novel" I don’t know how. I don’t understand storyline development, or charcter development. At least I know some of what I don’t know! What scares me is the stuff that I don’t know that I don’t know. Confusing?
BTW, My_Hiroshima, good observation about the members who only write for themselves. What ARE they doing here anyway?
later,
Dave |
| User | mae | 2005-01-04 | | | Subject | fizzle, I agree with | | Message | your comments. At the age of 14, 15, 16 or 28, 29, 30, it just makes no sense to say you’re not going to write in a particular genre. First, you don’t really know what you’re going to be doing 10 years from now. But secondly, it’s just so limiting - or, dare I say it, lazy - not to try other forms of writing. Never, EVER, did I think I’d write a novel. Just give me my poetry. Then I took an online writing course and nobody knew what to do with my poetry, so I wrote a long "short" story - which was received amazingly well. And after many entreaties to make a book out of it, I’m actually having a go at it. I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m going to need a lot of feedback from my other writing boards, but I’m trying it - and it’s exciting! It just makes no sense to limit yourself - no sense at all. So what if you don’t WANT to write a novel, Hiroshima. Why shouldn’t you have to do something you don’t want to? We all do it every day. Writing is a craft. That’s the one thing I find frustrating about this site - all these writers who think it just flows out of them. Well, I’m here to tell you that if it’s any good, it’s written, studied, rewritten, studied some more and rewritten some more. Good writers read other writers and they WRITE - a lot of every kind of writing.Writing is just no different than other kinds of art - you study, you practice, you learn and you improve. mae |
| User | Mister Fizzle | 2005-01-04 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | you know, you kids (and when I say kids I’m talking about you 14, 15, 16 year olds out there) think you just got the world figured out.
My Hiroshima for instance. Look at you. I have read your work. Your brilliant for a 14 year old kid. You have sworn off novels. LOL I guess you don’t plan on actually writing for a living then huh?
How many books of prose made the New York Times Best Seller list?
yeah.
Listen all you kids. I am a fan of alot of you guys actually. Your very talented and to hear all of you saying I swear off this kind or that kind of writing is absurd. Absurd and troubling. Setting limits on yourselves, it is ridiculas.
People who assume knowledge of things they barely understand. Unbelievable. I look at all of you and wonder if I was ever so naive?
I guess it’s like that poem I wrote.
"kids know everything"
you guys should not disregard what Sandburg is saying, the guys been around the block a few times.
peace
fizzle |
| User | mae | 2005-01-02 | | | Subject | Your writing is a | | Message | reflection of what you are inside - the real you. You can’t put make-up on it, shave it, color or curl it. If you aren’t protective of it, someone may reject your writing, thus reject you and what you are. Or, at least that’s the way I see that particular circumstance. mae. |
| User | Mister Fizzle | 2005-01-02 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | is it not funny that people have such a low opinion of their physical beauty and such a high opinion of their personal writing?
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| User | mae | 2005-01-01 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | Oh good grief! Me and that cotton-picking button!
...ESPECIALLY, the last part about writing not being just for yourself. Yes, yes, yes. mae |
| User | mae | 2005-01-01 | | | Subject | untitled | | Message | my_hiroshima, I agree with every single word you said, ESPECIALLY |
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