User	tZar
Topic	How to write a haiku
Message	I am getting tired of reading so called haikus. Why do people not inform themselves about the real form of something, before trying to revolutionize a genre. At least try to find out what a haiku is before posting one!! It is not only 5, 7, 5, syllables – that’s how we introduce kids to the form! So onto the haiku lecture of the day: There are four basic rules to the haiku: 1: It contains 17 syllables. First line 5 syllables, second line 7 syllables and third line 5 syllables – people seems to have gotten this one. 2: It needs to refer to nature (not only some human nature) – this is a must!! 3: I must refer to a specific situation (not a generalized experience/situation) 4: The situation should be described in present tense (not a must, but in the original haiku form it is always done in present tense). It is said that a haiku should open a door so that the reader experience his/her own feelings, not only the writers – this is the hard part. R.H. Blyth said: “A haiku is a finger pointing at the moon, but if there is a beautiful ring on the finger, we do not see what it is pointing at.” In other words – keep it simple! The rules is not binding, but try at least to master the basic before you go on and get innovative. Without a strong sense of the original, you are not equipped to develop anything! Further reading: Harold G. Hendersons Haiku in English

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User Logic | 2006-07-05 |
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Message This topic is bulls***. "Just because"

User DavidHirt | 2006-07-04 |
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Message Something can be formal and come from the heart just as easily as something free verse.

User DavidHirt | 2006-07-04 |
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Message format can make all the difference in the world to someone who understands the form they are using. Just becasue something is formal doesn’t mean it isn’t fromt he heart and to think otherwise is just foolishness. Just because something is written free verse doesn’t make it poetry or meaningful. Just because something is written formally doesn’t make it poetry or meaningful. It is writing. It is meaningful to the person who uses it.

User Logic | 2006-07-04 |
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Message Writing comes from the heart. Format doesn’t make a difference.

User Logic | 2006-07-04 |
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Message Your forum topics are ridiculous. I know writers when I read them, and you are not. Find another site to vent your foolish arrogance.

User DavidHirt | 2006-05-03 |
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Message I’m going to have to get myself a copy of "The 1000 Masters" someday. The version I saw at Borders the other day had the original on the left and the translation on the right.

User alteredlife | 2006-04-27 |
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Message Check this site out... it has everything you want to know... http://www.shadowpoetry.com/resources/haiku/haiku.html

User alteredlife | 2006-04-25 |
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Message Well, yes... I agree with you on all points tZar... that it’s a good idea to come to grips with it before you start bending the rules... which I’ve done... I haven’t jumped straight onto the third level like you said... and that applies to any fixed form/syllabic poetry. There’s traditional haiku and modern haiku apparently. Traditional is what you are talking about. Basho went past that and did it his own way... after going through those first two steps like you said. This is just something I’ve read off the net (and we know how reliable that source is lol), but haiku can be anything under 17 syllables. Apparently... don’t quote me on that.

Anyway, that’s all I’ve got for ya.

User DavidHirt | 2006-04-24 |
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Message I totally agree with your assesment of Words. It’s an integral part of my own writing.

User tZar | 2006-04-24 |
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Message I have been watching this thread, trying to decide when to jump back in. Well, in answer to some of the posts that has been made:

As to the bit about nature: It has to be about nature to be a haiku. If it is not it is called something else, e.g. a senryu or something else as explained in an earlier post.

The 17 syllables and rules on the form in general: It is not a strict rule, and can be broken. This was however not my point when writing the original post. I tried to spell out to people that you need to be a craftsman before you can become an artist!! Rules are in any form of poetry meant to give you liberties and restrictions. I will try to make an analogy to Aristotle to explain this point: He mentions three ways of abiding by the law: On the first level we abide by laws because of fear of punishment or because we strive for a reward. On the second level we hold the law in high esteem, we do no longer fear or want rewards, but we just respect the law for being right. On the third and last level we abide by the law, because we know that it is the best way – and should we understand that the law could be better if it was changed, we try to change it, in other words we have an insight in the law, and will only change it if it serves a better purpose.
My point is, that you are all right when you say that the rules are made to be broken, but you need to get knowledge of the core of the rules, before you are qualified to make a judgement of whether the rule breaking is ‘allowed’ or still in the spirit of the form.
Many that have difficulties writing/mastering the original form, thinks they can just jump up to Aristotle’s third level, to make the task easier for themselves, or to suit there purpose better. But you need to go through these stages, to get a comprehension of the form and the ‘¨mission’ of the haiku. This also applies to almost any other form of poetry. I do not say that we shall go back to pure structuralism and disregard the content, but disregarding form is not (in my view) an options either. When we lose structure, or the structure of an original form, we also lose some of the meaning that the structure in itself was established to convey.

I have also heard objections like: “Japanese words/signs can hold much more meaning then English words can, therefore it is meaningless to have a rule that says that you can only use so and so many words/syllables”. If you feel this is the case, when entering into the haiku genre, I have a simple suggestion: Do not venture into haiku, write in some other appropriate form! Again, this is spoken to the beginners of the genre.
I am also of the opinion that the argument above is somewhat rubbish, as you can in your own language play with meanings of words. As an example we can look at an isolated word ‘oil’. Ask ten different people to tell you what this is, and you might end up with ten different meanings/explanations: “It is used for cooking,” said the cook. “It is used to give the last blessing,” said the orthodox priest. “We drill it to fuel the country” “It kills the birds in the oceans”. And as we see, oil for fuel, blessings or olive oil are not the same, and the single word can play on one or several of these meanings at the same time, it is all about getting to know your language, and exploring every single word you put in any poem.

Guess this got a bit long, but I hope it helps in clarifying on my motive on starting this thread.

-tZar

User DavidHirt | 2006-04-22 |
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Message Having said that, though, How does one write a poem in a language that doesn’t use an alphabet?

User DavidHirt | 2006-04-22 |
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Message Translation is a hinderence. No poem is the same in a language other than the one it is written in. What do the lines do in the original language? Just because the translation doesn’t follow what we consider the form doesn’t mean the origianl isn’t formal.

User Fantastic Freya | 2006-04-12 |
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Message "Point is this. the syllable count is the least important rule of the form."

Thank you. Totally.

User MyFinal Letters | 2006-04-12 |
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Message Waking in the night;
the lamp is low,
the oil freezing.

The above is a haiku poem by one of the Japanese Masters of the form: Basho

you will note that the syllable count is 5-4-5 for a total of 14. This man is a legend, he along with 3 others (Buson, Issa, and Shiki) are regarded as the greatest poets of this form.

Point is this. the syllable count is the least important rule of the form.

Sam Bend

User MyFinal Letters | 2006-04-12 |
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Message in truth the Haiku, being a japanese form of poetry, is not even accurately conveying the form with 17 english syllables. So yes, variation on that is allowed and not frowned upon. If you do a little searching about Haiku on the internet you will find much discussion about that topic as well as some other really fascinating points about this deceptively simple form.

It’s really alot like chess you know, easy to learn, hard to master.

Sam Bend

User joeyalphabet | 2006-03-27 |
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Message rules are made to be broken. i’ve also head haiku can be in 3/5/3 format or just 17 syllables total. it also doesn’t necessarily need to be about nature either.

User | 2006-03-27 |
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Message Yes, enjambment is often used in haiku... when it shouldn’t... meaning each line should stand by itself without connective words to hold it together in ’proper’ syntax’. However, a chained haiku fleshes it out more in my opinion (which I’ve done)... a choka is pretty much a chained haiku.. look it up on Wikipedia or whatever... but basically it’s 5-7 for however long you want (some choka have been known to run to 100 or more verses) until the end (which is 5-7-5 like haiku). So really, it’s still about short-form in clipping your syllable count... but it lets you fiddle a bit more than one haiku ever could. Or how about a tanka... 5-7-5 7-7... try that for size

Anyways, haiku doesn’t necessarily even have to be 17 syllables over a 5-7-5 line count... it can be less than that (as far as I’m aware)... it just needs to have the same sense of simplicity in nature as a haiku does... refined, concise etc... and un-enjambed.

And how about a goddamn sen-ryu, which is the same as a haiku but deals with personal reflection as opposed to natural?

I’m all for breaking rules too... but I think that it would be good for people to do these properly so they realize exactly how to do one in the first place.

And even though I’m quite partial to them I have one major bone to pick: haiku is Japanese, meaning that a Japanese character can imply a lot more than a single syllable of English ever could... depending on the other characters around it. I mean, I wonder how much imagery is actually packed into a proper Japanese haiku as opposed to an Anglicized one? I bet they pack way more into theirs.

Sorry, just a few thoughts. You just forgot about the non-enjambment ’rule’ tZar, that’s all really. And all the Japanese (and mutated Anglicized) variants which I just went into.

Hope this clarifies somewhat. Blah.

User Fantastic Freya | 2006-03-18 |
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Message I couldn’t agree more.

Haiku is supposed to lead the reader to their own contemplation. If it is all spelled out for you, there’s no need to think, and I suppose that’s nice for some people but it’s not haiku.

Also, "haiku chains" or "haiku verse", what’s the deal with that? Haiku is a short form because it’s supposed to put everything it needs to into those 17 syllables.

A haiku should never be enjambed (words run onto another line, sentence-like). 5, 7, 5 -- situation, description, summation. More or less.

There’s nothing to say it has to be ordinary, or old fashioned, or boring. Just remember there’s more to a form than just the simplest of syllable counts.