I think you miss my point. I often debate issues with my friends. We'll kick the topic around, examine it from many angles, and attempt to rationally keep the tally. But if I'm arguing with someone it's usually because I take serious exception to the acceptability of their attitude problem. Like utterly wimpy, totally tweaked, and various related execrating expletives. Further although giving them a thorough verbal lashing can be expeditious I seldom argue unless someone seriously needs their ass kicked. Just saying perhaps you shouldn't belittle this form of argumentation as illiterate and immature just because I'm not willing to court their take on the issues. Like what do you want to do when your walking down the street and you see someone nailing a kitten to a telephone pole, I don't know about you but I get seriously argumentative and more than a little inexorable. I could care less if they think they have a point of view because I won't be hearing it!!!