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    poetry


    dots Submission Name: Jungian lovedots
    --------------------------------------------------------





    Author: deadndreaming
    Elite Ratio:    6.74 - 1359/1263/81
    Words: 345
    Class/Type: Poetry/Passion
    Total Views: 1520
    Average Vote:    4.5000
    Bytes: 2530



    Description:
       inspired by conversations with a friend and a recent binge of reading on Carl Jung. and yes, "alteredlife-like Horizon" is a reference to Jase's (alteredlife, check him out if you haven't) brilliant "Your Horizon"...all comments welcome. completely unsure of the title, so suggestions would be appreciated

    thanks so much for your inspiration "friend"

    ps if you figure out who the friend is please keep it to yourself

    if you'd rather interpret it as you see fit, ignore the rest




    anima + animus = syzygy

    mana = spiritual power

    shadow = the dark side of our psyche

    entropy = when oppositions come together, energy decreases, thus causing this energy to distribute evenly

    collective unconscious = ...um...nevermind, too complex...if you don't know and you really want to know (it is quite fascinating) message me and I'll tell ya


    Make the font bigger!! Double Spacing Back to recent posts.

    dotsJungian lovedots
    -------------------------------------------


    i'll miss Her

    but not so much for Her fragile (yet brazen) beauty —
    that structure of flesh and intensity
    that attacks the heart at impact
    freezing the lungs for an instant
    before that incessant exhilarating exhalation
    of restrained passion swallows the senses,
    blinding surface sight
    guiding vision inward
    (into myself and into Her Self;
    a journey into a Jungian jungle of collective unconscious)
    with one simple gaze into those enticing eyes;
    windows revealing generations of
    mutual memoirs and compulsive obsession
    wrapped into a composition
    of dignified grace

           e   x   h    a    l    e

    i'll miss Her

    for the words that escape Her prudent lips (via fingertips)—
    volumes of vital verse
    that travel through the subliminal
    and into the sublime;
    in search of syzygy
    where anima meets animus,
    but not in this corrupt concrete valley,
    not to fuck
    but to meld
    into a shared psychic inheritance
    where man meets mana
    where we embrace our shadow
    abandon our ego
    to fade into entropy
    (st um ble into balance)

    and so She goes

    a long-distance muse
    an alteredlife-like Horizon over an ocean;
    too far to touch but always within the mind's reach
    as if i could step
    to where the sand meets the sea
    and feel Her insight take hold
    of my timid toes
    pull me into Her undertow
    and draw me across this expanse of archival tides
    to where She lies
    embodied in the delusional sun

    Her diary destroyed —
    i abandon the explicit literal text
    and consume the context
    absorb the essence
    devour whole the "whole sentences of light"
    that crept through those blinds
    enlightening my sentience
    helping me to accept my place
    in this celestial continuity
    of time and space
    where communities can strive
    in these cities of my mind
    however tangled, tarnished and alone i might be

    no matter where She lands,
    where ever She stands,
    She
    will always be
    golden




    Submitted on 2006-03-07 18:16:06     Terms of Service / Copyright Rules
    Submissions: [ Previous ] [ Next ]

    Rate This Submission

    1: >_<
    2: I dunno...
    3: meh!
    4: Pretty cool
    5: Wow!




    ||| Comments |||
      I think that reading the explanation ruins the poem: and it seemed technical and explanatory: so I definitely wasn't going there

    But who am I?

    In paragraph 1, the third person is far to cold. I know were not supposed to you III YOU YOU YOU but this poem needed the personal first person I feel

    I like the crescendo in paragraph 1, kind of breathless; that's how I read it anyway - and that is effective: the diction you read that way you want the reader to FEEL, not read, and the way it is written really helps with this

    Nice

    Paragraph 2 is too clever, a little pompous, too much code cracking required, and therefore loses all emotion. Why do we write poems - who [censored] knows - I've just decided after 4 odd years out to try my hand - but surely one of the top reasons has to be to change people's lives. to make them feel, to suck them in and give them a shift in emotion, take them to the place where you are at: the direction you want - and when these need de-coding all it is is a lesson in the Da Vinci code or Sudoku

    The capitalisation of Her and She is really clunky in the text. It removes the softness, it adds jagged edges, stifles the flow

    It is too long. You drag it out. I reckon if you cut it in half, you'd make it better

    Its easy to blind people with Bull[censored], but its another thing to make every word hold people. I know nothing about poetry, and I'm not well read at all, but in everything I see that is great, and moves people, it's often always the most simple. Look at JFK's inaugural, or MLK's famous speech: you don't need a Thesaurus for those. And I bet you don't for the most well read and moving poems either

    You've always been a good wordsmith, but I think you get in your own way. I often find that the more you know, the harder things can become because you are trying to get everything you know in. It's like the laws of Influence [Cialdini] - you know them all, and all of a sudden you're using them ALL in a conversation and it's WAY TOO MUCH

    So...

    1. Be honest.
    I was
    2. Try not to give only compliments.
    I didn't
    3. How did it make you feel?
    Empty and unsatisfied because I know it was nearly there
    4. Why did it make you feel that way?
    Because it was too technical
    5. Which parts?
    Most of it
    6. What distracted from the piece?
    Too many words, complications and translations needed
    7. What was unclear?
    As above
    8. What does it remind you of?
    My girlfriend dishing out too many jobs: I can't handle them all: one at a time please
    9. How could it be improved?
    10. What would you have done differently?
    Strip it down and let it be and breathe
    11. What was your interpretation of it?
    I'm not good at interpreting, but I don't think we should have to be
    12. Does it feel original?
    Yes
    | Posted on 2011-03-14 00:00:00 | by on1eday.co.uk | [ Reply to This ]
      Overall I do really like this poem, but as seems to be the trend, I have some (few) suggestions.

    Ignore them if you want...

    The first line I think would become much more smooth and expressive with the removal of the words inside the brackets. You make allusions to it anyway, in the lines below, so I see no need to make it explicit.

    I do like the lines "that travel through the subliminal
    and into the sublime;" whether or not it was your intention, it gives me a keen feeling of metaphysical movement, which I think fits well with the overall theme of this work.

    The following lines: "but not in this corrupt concrete valley,
    not to [censored]
    but to meld "
    I think have been constructed well. The inclusion of the two short lines after the description of the valley gives me a short textual slap, ensuring that I PAY ATTENTION to what is going on, a good thing as readers minds tend to wander at this stage when reading a poem.

    The only other suggestion/observation I can make at this time is one concerning the final stanza(?). Perhaps the addition of the word 'may', and the removal of the pluralizing 's' in the line "where ever she stands" could more readily ensure the flow of this part. This could perhaps increase the clever contrast between the two long lines and the two short.

    As it is, I think that this is a very good poem, and you should be commended for writing such a work.
    | Posted on 2006-03-22 00:00:00 | by FaceLeg | [ Reply to This ]
      Lot of ambivalence toward this one for me.
    I really like some of the lines...especially the
    last one as it shows a celebration.
    I'd seriously consider dropping everything down to and including the exhale. That whole
    stanza comes off as trite. Your mention of the Jungian jungle is too obvious and unnecessary compared to where you eventually go, and in light of the bombardment of Jungian terms you use more skillfully later in the poem. I realize the first stanza attempts to set up the more important lines to come via contrast, but I'm not sure the set-up is necessary.

    From the 2nd "I'll miss her" down to but not
    including the last stanza, you have some really
    excellent lines. Try reading it yourself just from there and see what you think. The last stanza again falls flat, comes
    off as melodramatic (as those short lines
    so often do), until the word "golden." I'd
    seriously consider reworking that stanza.

    The piece demonstrates remarkable skill, but
    it seems like you have trouble discriminating
    between the poetry and the predictable.
    Please stick with the poetry.
    | Posted on 2006-03-21 00:00:00 | by Keats | [ Reply to This ]
      you know what i like about this? the romanticism behind it all. you have often so easily displayed in your pieces that "quality" that lyterally makes a gal sigh. its what makes your work so easily relatable. its a quality that is present in many classic poets, that drive you to delve further into their works, to wonder and learn

    anyways i ramble, but i enjoyed this very much.

    take care
    -Nikki
    | Posted on 2006-03-20 00:00:00 | by stolie77 | [ Reply to This ]
      On the adrogenous side of self- love there is the embrace of opposites contained in one flaming kiss. It is the one that should last forever and contains the balance that is perfect.. perhaps it's discovered at mid-life or so.

    And nearly always someone inspires us to acknowledge how hot the lovers within us really are, for those of us who write, the catalyst is a muse. But mostly this is hot stuff Dave, like we're accustomed to reading but alongside is the technical edge and beauty in a spacious mix of sight and sound.

    And this is exactly the kind of work that needs to be written right now, beauty and form in graceful measure.

    much love,

    Nan

    | Posted on 2006-03-10 00:00:00 | by nansofast | [ Reply to This ]
      Dave - Nice to se you are back. This is great poetry. It is complete, directed, smooth, intelligent, and simply, beautiful. Now, I know nothing of Jung, so bear that in mind, but I think I know about the kind of love, of which you speak. The synchronisity of parts, the sense of completeness, together, that was not there otherwise. Two, that become like one person, whole, and yet separate. This does not have to be sexual, or even physical, but can happen on an intellectual level, a mental melding of psyches. Shared ideas, alter-egos, counter-balances, can be felt in an instant, and later expanded, until they merge into a collective unconscience. Is this a form of love, I think so. It is so rare, that this happens, that it must be. What is love? I say caring for another life more than our own. This can take place in the mind, without a physical presence. Your poem seems to indicate that is what has happened, and now it is ending. "Golden" is a good way to describe the value placed on the association of minds.

    To your poem; There is only, maybe (and I emphasize 'maybe'), one thing you might consider. The use of "eyes" and then "windows", is a bit of an overexposed expression. Perhaps the easiest thing to do, is to not use "windows" at all, just begin that line at "revealing". If you want something there, make it new and diferent, "open books", "pages", "scrrens", tempered glass", just not windows.

    Now, that's all I can offer in terms of changes. The rest, I will just enjoy again and again. This is a definite FAV. It's great that you are back, what a way to re-begin. WOW!

    Phil
    | Posted on 2006-03-09 00:00:00 | by phil askew | [ Reply to This ]
      i simply adore this, Dave. i have nothing but kudos and admiration. can't say anything more except this is a new fave.. i studied a lot of Jung when i was in college, going for my BA in psyche..

    marvelous work!

    peace&love,
    ~Cat
    | Posted on 2006-03-09 00:00:00 | by magnicat | [ Reply to This ]
      The only distraction from the simple elegance of this piece seems to me the overwrought use of typographical tricks e x h a l e which strike me as "do not use!" when I see them, or risk cliché (at this point, style can be cited, yet I feel it's better to just lay it out there as the simple word, because it stretches itself in the mind and needs no help). Abandon it or keep it as you like.

    Minor gripes aside on successive readings I find myself quite impressed with the poem as a whole. It's a bit to take in at first and requires some attention to fully absorb, but once you do that it shines, bro. It really does.

    This is the best thing I've seen from you in maybe a year. Truly.

    You put some hard work into this one and it shows.

    It's golden.

    M~
    | Posted on 2006-03-10 00:00:00 | by Vancrown | [ Reply to This ]
      This is all but a dream that you know you must let go of, but just can't seem to let it completely diminish. Your mind won't let you.

    Enough said. Another favorite. Now I need more wine.

    Brightest Blessings,
    Crystal
    | Posted on 2006-03-10 00:00:00 | by lenotoire | [ Reply to This ]
      I read this the other day, and I decided to come back when I have more brain juice, but I'm no better off today, sorry. I like the typographical quirks, but I can see why some might think you overdo it. I also can see why some say some of your lines are mouthfulls, but I think it all works (for what it's worth). I always appreciate what a great wordsmith you are, and this is no exception. There are so many devices used here that it's like a poetic appliance store. Anyway, if I think of anything to criticize, I'll come back, but I think all of the supposed imperfections in this make it better, so I guess they're like Cindy Crawford's mole or something. Anyway, this is wonderful, Amy
    | Posted on 2006-03-10 00:00:00 | by cuddledumplin | [ Reply to This ]
      We all probably know that me stopping by will just be another waste of time and words since I only say the most useless things... but I think I promised Alia I'd kill her if she ever learned to shut up. And, I think she'll do the same for me...

    ...just feels like she will.

    So allow me to give the illusion of speaking and not talking out of my ass.

    I think that the e x h a l e works well only if you keep the second miss because it gives that other-side feel to your poem... A second layer of not so sweet (but still sweet) chocolate. And I think it works with the quirky and somewhat spontaneous tone.

    I feel like there should be spaces between

    she

    will always be

    golden

    I don't know why exactly. I guess it helps with the hushing effect. You know, its like, when someone goes into seizure and you are required to do nothing but move the furniture because doing anything else could make things worse... and you feel your heart beat raising as you get with whatever it was that was going on with the one convulsing... then when he relaxes... so do you. And in a way you feel relieved.

    I think that it helps emit that.

    But what do I know, right? Shoot me.

    Anyway, the thing, as a whole was great. Haven't been around you for awhile so... it feels nice with the fact that the piece really is good. It gives that sense of danger that comes being too close to someone or to your self (to the point that you rationalize every little thing... Why do you have to wipe your [censored]? Why do you look at her that way? No you don't... you just want to feel important) And the sense of safety or... untoucha-bility... that comes with it.

    not to [censored]

    but to meld.
    | Posted on 2006-03-11 00:00:00 | by ANGELO | [ Reply to This ]
      Oh my god, am I the first commenter on this? That's like... amazing! I'm usuallly the twenty-fifth or so lol.

    To answer the question that you left on my homepage... I'm more than honoured at the tribute... it's really flattering actually - 'an alteredlife-like Horizon over an ocean; - to inject my ID name and make a reference to my latest post is pretty damn cool... if other people don't read that post, it doesn't matter... because you've hidden it within the poem quite well... and it fits with the theme of the poem... and makes definite sense to me.

    Another few things I have to mention is the collective unconscious and Jungian archetypal dream imagery - it's something that deeply fascinates me which I incorporate quite a lot of into my poems. I don't know if you knew that or if it's just a coincidence, or if it's obvious by what I write... but that's just freaky in itself.

    About the poem itself... I noticed a lot of alliteration, assonance and random use of true rhyme here and there which gave this a rolling sonic soundscape to feed off... when done well (which you have), it comes off lyrically sweet to the ears... I'm a firm believer in the way a piece sounds (the message is always paramount, of course) - but everything meshes together when it's aurally pleasing I think.

    I won't go into an analysis... I'm sure you'll get a lot of comments which will... so I'll leave that alone for others to chew over lol. Suffice to say, it speaks to me of unabashed pure love for this woman... real or figurative, it doesn't matter... it just shines forth from this piece.

    I've said this countless times before... but art and inspiration cannot exist in a vacuum... we as artists/writers/musicians/whatever need to feed off each other to evolve - through ideas/inspiration/a starting point etc, you know? So that's why I'm flattered... that you incorporated the essence of one of my poem's into yours... it's not plagiarism... it's appreciation and a kick-start to your own vehicle to charge from. Does that make sense?

    I am more touched than you will ever know... and you know I think your writing is fantabulous stuff lol. Oh, and it's a fave of course... you really make it hard not to fave things you know.


    Peace,

    Jase

    P.S. If you ever get the time, check out my piece 'Jungian 5 Minute Concepts' - http://www.eliteskills.com/z/66211 - since this poem deals with the collective unconscious I thought you would be interested. Plus, I know it needs polishing up... the punctuation really sucks in it lol.
    | Posted on 2006-03-07 00:00:00 | by alteredlife | [ Reply to This ]
      I really like this poem; I'm reading it dozen times because it takes a million reads to actually understand the whole of it. I'm just shivering with excitement over this, I can't describe my admiration! I'll have to break this down by verse so this is going to be a bit longwinded.

    but not so much for Her fragile (yet brazen) beauty —
    that structure of flesh and intensity
    that attacks the heart at impact
    freezing the lungs for an instant
    before that incessant exhilarating exhalation
    of restrained passion swallows the senses,
    blinding surface sight
    guiding vision inward
    (into myself and into Her Self;
    a journey into a Jungian jungle of collective unconscious)
    with one simple gaze into those enticing eyes;
    windows revealing generations of
    mutual memoirs and compulsive obsession
    wrapped into a composition
    of dignified grace

    The fact that this connects so perfectly I can't really take a part out of it and describe why I like it, so I was like what the heck I'll copy the whole thing and say what I got out of it. With the freezing of the lungs and exhaling such passion. I can't describe it, it's like you see her and your breathless, you can't say a word and then it all just comes out like a flood. That’s what I got out of that line; it's so beautiful and so sweet!

    Then you say guiding the vision inward to both yourself and her, that you’re so focused on each other that all around you is gone. And what I thought about the Jungian jungle of unconscious is like you eyesight is traveling to the depths of you mind seeing the unconscious mind...I don't know if I'm getting the whole it. When you say the eyes, the way you describe them like looking through a window of something you feel you have inside you.

    Now I'm not going to break the whole thing down (I’ll tire myself out and you out, while crashing the elite server), just the first stanza because the first stanza was utterly breathtaking and had so much depth! Now reading through this I’ve concluded that you're reading a journal of hers and remembering her. I'm not sure if I got this.

    I really like the psychic inheritance part, just a beautiful way to put it. The F*ck part threw me off a bit but it still flowed nicely.

    Okay went off subject in the lines above, now getting back to the part of what it means. Did she leave or die, is this person reading a journal of her? Did he lose her and now is finding out more of her and what she thinks? I begin to think that he is beginning to heal and accept and to love her more. I’m not sure if I understand it wholly, tell me if I got gist of it!

    I'll wrap this up. I really love the metaphors; it's so packed into it I feel almost lost in its beauty. I REALLY LOVE some of the ways you wrote the words to give it more feeling (e x h a l e, st um ble) if you don't mind I'd like to do a little bit of that to my writing...that's if you don't mind. I really loved this; you improved the way I look at writing and my writing by just reading this peace. Favorite from me!
    | Posted on 2006-03-07 00:00:00 | by Indelible_ink | [ Reply to This ]
      mmm taste like Jesus.

    Well this is definitely flawless - and I like the fact that it leaves the reader to look at the things you don't mention (something I value in poetry.) The sonics in this are incredible, a dreamscape of sound. I would offer more to you, but, I think alot of have already expressed - no sense in regurgitation. This is a zenith and emodiment of genuine devotion to art.
    | Posted on 2006-03-08 00:00:00 | by 27_deadpoets | [ Reply to This ]
      you wrot' an nice peice here. as blissful and taboo as the love you depict'd may seem, "jungian jungle" seems fitting ( as to the oepidus complex)
    however(emphasis),
    to go into the complexity of suggesting the theory of "collective conscious" applies is a slap in the face. i feel there is a form of "connection" between two souls who are entwined... but to go as far to state this as "collective"? an outdated theory that strikes itself out. on all levels.
    jung's counterpart (as much as i cant stand him either) was correct in assuming this theory was "a black-tide of mud" - or a crock of sh.it.
    ending this here.
    may add one last thing: if u are one that denies the holocaust ever happen'd then this is a fundament belief for you. wipe the slates of consciousness clean and live in oblivion.
    my appology to deviate from such a beautiful peice. but this blight need'd to be apparent and put in its proper place.. later.
    | Posted on 2006-03-08 00:00:00 | by vohomegirl | [ Reply to This ]
      I absolutely did not imagine you could write something more beautiful than your older poems but you did. this is great. this one could be published. submit it to http://thedandereview.blogspot.com/. he published a few of mine and yours is way much better. (you'd never know I was an english major).

    pretty cool stuff.

    | Posted on 2006-03-08 00:00:00 | by sierramuse8 | [ Reply to This ]


    Think Feedback more than Compliments :: [ Guidelines ]

    1. Be honest.
    2. Try not to give only compliments.
    3. How did it make you feel?
    4. Why did it make you feel that way?
    5. Which parts?
    6. What distracted from the piece?
    7. What was unclear?
    8. What does it remind you of?
    9. How could it be improved?
    10. What would you have done differently?
    11. What was your interpretation of it?
    12. Does it feel original?



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